Discussions
2 missing peices of the Secret
Posted by Shrimpsey • 6/21/09 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: law of attraction, missing peices of the secret, the secret
As some of you know, I have been working with learning the law of attraction, and in my research have discovered a couple things. I encourage you to read my blog post from today, especially if you are struggilng with LOA, I know how to manifest now. Here is the first paragraph, and if you want, read the rest. Its a very informative post.
After researching, I have discovered the reason why the law of attraction works for some people and not for others. There are 2 key things you need to do along with the law of attraction in order for things to manifest. I was on the right track when I started this blog, but with big holes of missing information. Well, its time to fill in the holes, and as I said before, the more I learn about how this works, and what we need to be doing, I will share it here in hopes that you, the readers will also be able to learn about these laws, and how to put yourself in harmony with them, thus receiving what you want and having the life you desire.
shrimpsey.blogspot.com
I would LOVE to hear waht your thoughts are on the subject, and about what I have learned.
User Comments
-
ADMIN:
NERTS! I accidentally clicked the report button when I was hovering my mouse!
I'm so sorry. It was unintentional-
i do that every day almost
and with google chrome i click on the bookmarks almost every time I go to the url bar -
tremor in mouse hand
-
Thats ok timetheif. Seeing as the topic of your main blog is on personal growth, I am interested to know your thoughts on my findings and if you too use these laws in your life?
-
Have you seen these videos?
Eye to Eye: 'The Secret'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3qyb9sv28w&feature=related
Experts Debate Self-Help Phenom 'The Secret'
principles - ask - believe - receive
think - feel - act
James Arthur Ray, author of "The Science of Success" and Psychology Professor John Norcross disagree on whether the hit self-help program "The Secret" actually works. Harry Smith moderates their discussion. www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWfmkh7eN-4&feature=channel
Positive thinking will improve one's ability to deal with life experiences in a healthy manner. But guaranteeing that your every wish will come true like curing your blindness and/or your cancer and/or that you will make a million dollars by blogging and using Google Adsense simply because you ask - believe - receive is unsubstantiated, and IMO contraindicated.
Those who earnestly do follow "the secret" (The Power of Positive Thinking by Maxwell Maltz repackaged)ought to be very clear about this. If they are not spiritually awakened then their wishes will be based on self gratification, and IMO such egocentric desires will not manifest.
-
-
The secret is your soul - which is your substance.
Considering your mind to be a substance is an ideology. -
I will read that since I blog on love and relationships. Thank you. -
I would assume at least ONE of those "secrets" would involved getting up off your butt and actually DOING something.-
Blasphemy. Doing work is un-American. It's obviously not my fault. -
you are right, Action is a part of it.
Please comment only if you actually read the article. I was hoping to discuss others thoughts on exactly what I have learned, not your assumptions about what you think its about. Thanks -
That's fair. I will read it. My apologies:)
-
"Please comment only if you actually read the article"
Perhaps you're not aware that the guidelines for Shameless Blog Promotion posts specifically require that the post lend itself to discussion whether or not people choose to click through to your blog?
-
-
-
I read your article, you are missing key points, and other laws. There are 12 universal laws that I know about at this point, and I am continuing to learn. The "secret" just touched on the law of attraction, its only a SMALL part of the BIG picture.
-
I think what you are missing is this:
Claudia Schiffer hasn't shown up.
-
-
Timecheif - I guess you never read the article, because if you did, you would relise that it is WAY more in depth then ask, believe recieve. That is only a small part of the whole bigger picture, and if you would have read, you would know that this is way more then the "secret" and the law of attraction. I am learning about ALL the universal laws, and how they ALL work in order to make this "secret" work. Its NOT just posative thinking, and no offence, I am pretty surprised that you would post and comment what you did without even taking the time to actually read what the topic of discussion actually is.
For someone that is so "report" happy on threads, I woudl have thought you to be the type of person to actually read what a poster is posting before offering your opinion.-
Check your stats. I did read the post. It took me a second so to capture & paste into a text editor (I'm visually challenged, but I found nothing in your post that was "new" to me.
-
-
I noticed you edited your origional post, and if you read my post, then why did you not mention the action, and giving back something of value, and the way you use your mind as a tool.......
-
I've attended a few discussions today and notice that the stars are out of alignment.
Everybody need to relax and keep on topic.
What a Sunday! -
I am not too keen on "The Secret" but I know that we can influence our lives greatly simply by training ourselves to think the right thoughts, and combine them with actions. As a person of faith, I know when I pray, good things happen. Maybe not exactly what I want, but something good. I just got laid off from my job. I feel like things will work out, OK, though. There's a plan to my life, and God reveals it as needed. -
I have the giving back part down.
I'm always picking up trash - always helping others out - that is a part of "ME".
I have the thinking positive just starting.
And...
I am trying to think of what I can do to make it happen.
Slowly but surely.
TT is just talking about how she thinks of it.
Not that she is abrasive, she just doesn't feel it fits in her way of thinking - which each person thinks differently.
And while she agrees with some aspects, she doesn't agree with all of them - and pointed out what she thought might be important - and provided an extra research tool - or piece of info for you.
I have found that when reading TT - you have to stop feeling - and read... just the words... Not what YOU think the INTENT behind the words are...
She's extremely helpful and keep in mind - sometimes it IS What we say - and NOT how we say them that is important.
Anyhow - I'm still not sure what I think about the LOA - and I don't know ANYTHING about the 12 steps.
But your post is pretty cool.
I wish you'd write MORE examples of what YOU are doing - how it is affecting YOU personally - and if you could do it like a script - so we can LITERALLY follow you.
Take care S
I'll be watching - please post every once in awhile to remind me to look at your blog - or just to start a discussion.-
@wagerwitch
Thanks for what you said. You are quite right. I do agree with some aspects but not others and the Secret AKA Law of Attraction (power of positive thinking plus creative visualization) is not new to me.
Psycho-Cybernetics: A New Way to Get More Living out of Life was first published in 1960 by Prentice-Hall and first appeared in a pocket book edition in 1969. The book introduced Maltz's view that a person must have an accurate and positive view of one's self before setting goals, otherwise he or she will get stuck in a continuing pattern of limiting beliefs. His ideas focus on visualizing one's goals. He believed that self-image is the cornerstone of all the changes that take place in a person. If one's self-image is unhealthy, or faulty, all of his or her efforts will end in failure.
William Walker Atkinson, Richard Ingalese, Opheil and many others, have written books on the power of the mind to attract what one thinks about, and these books are still popular and available at bookstores. Other known authors are Joseph Murphy, Napoleon Hill and Wallace.D.Wattle. Shakti Gawain wrote an excellent book on the subject and popularized the term "Creative Visualization". All of these books are about what is now termed "The law of attraction" or The Secret.
The Secret AKA Law of Attraction official website is here thesecret.tv/secret-treasures.html
There you can get
* Visualization Tools
* Daily Teachings Widgets
* eBooks
* Recommended Reading
* Blank Check
* The Secret Memory Game
* Wallpaper and Printable PDFs
I repeat that those who send their desires for cures for their cancer, cures for blindness will be disappointed. And those who desire to become Adsense millionaires who lack the skills to produce the quality of content required to attract massive traffic will be making requests based on self gratification, and IMO such egocentric desires will not manifest.
-
-
Douglas, Thank you for your post. The last few days have been, well, really a miricle in itself. See below for explanation.
Timetheif - You are absolutly 100% right. If your intentions and desires are for egotistical purposed, nothing will change. You have the right to whatever your beliefs are, and I respect your choices. Your perception of my intentions are clouded, but without knowing me, I don't expect you to accuratly judge what my purpose is, nor does it matter.
I want to share with everyone what has happened to me. My latest blog post.
After almost 4 weeks of doing this, I am going through a spiritual awaking! UNBELIEVABLE! When I started this, it was more out of curiosity to see if it really works, I thought, all these people using it and telling of it, it must work, and now a month in, I feel COMPLETELY different! I never thought it could be like this so fast,
If you are interested, please check out David Neagle, and at the home page, it will ask your name and e-mail address and when you do you will receive his FREE 4 part audio class on the art of success. I will be listening to them OVER AND OVER,it is life changing. I PROMISE you, that after listening, they are a little over an hour each, your life will be changed. Coincidentally enough, his site is called just believe. I know where I am going now, and I will be a spiritual coach one day, and yes, you will see me on Oprah! I BELIEVE!!
www.davidneagle.com/index.htm
I have grown LEAPS AND BOUNDS compared to even a week ago because of his teachings. God gave us every tool we need to make our life what we want, we just need to learn how to use them, and I am learning, and its happening!! Its inside us! I have never felt so good in my entire life, Every tool that I need to reach my goals is just falling in my lap. Everything is starting to happen faster and faster!
My Letter to David
David,
I want to thank you so much, and share my story so far with you. So I am just going to start at the beginning, and then get to how I found, or should I say manifested you, and your knowledge into my life, and what I am going to do with this knowledge. I will state first off, that you have changed my life, and brought me to the next level, and I am so grateful!
The first time I heard of the law of attraction was when the secret DVD came out. After watching it, I was all excited, I was planning on using it, I believed it worked, and used it for a week or so, and just continued on with life, right back to the same old, same old. The middle to latter part of April 2009, a friend of mine asked me if I had ever seen the secret, she hadn’t. I told her how awesome it was, and said lets watch it. So we did. I got thinking about how I should use it, and that I knew it must work as all the people who are using it swear by it. I knew I wanted things to be different in my life. My husband and I had our second child last July, and my maternity leave is running out, and I don’t want to go back to shift work. This, and curiosity of the “what if” this really works, made me make a decision. About 4 weeks ago, I decided to change my thinking, and use the “secret” At this point, I had NO idea what I was doing, despite thinking I did. I knew I had to find a way to keep my focus, so I decided to start writing a blog as I thought people can watch me learn this, because I know it works, and it will inspire them to use it as they will see me starting from scratch. Also, committing to the blog would help me to keep my focus on what I was doing, instead of falling into the same routine. I called my blog Believe(so you can imagine my knowing grin when I noticed the other day your site is called Just Believe) and all I did to start out with was made the choice to think only positive things, and have a happy feeling inside always, no matter what. I used certain you tube videos that made me feel good as a tool to get me feeling positive. My goal, to not have to return to shift work this August.
As I went through the first 2 weeks, it started working. I was feeling great, and I could feel my self confidence growing. I wasn’t sure what was happening, but I knew something was, and I just believed. I just made that choice to believe. Soon after starting the blog, I noticed the Google ad sense widget in the blogger(this was my first ever blog) and thought, WOW, this is an opportunity to replace my income, if I do it right. So I got to work developing a couple of website. One is to teach people that don’t know about ad sense what it is, and exactly how to get started and going with it as I wanted to help others be able to supplement or increase their income. I started spending HOURS on the computer for a week or so, and then I thought, wait, this isn’t what I wanted, I wanted to be able to stay home with the kids so I can actually spend time with the kids, and I wasn’t. I was getting all caught up in ad sense, and being so sure that was the way for me, and almost started to stray off my path. I took a step back to reflect. I realise now, it was just that I didn’t know where I was going.(I do now) I decided I need to re focus and learn more about the law of attraction and what I was originally doing, and not all about Google ad sense. So I started reading about the laws of the universe. Well, that was still keeping me at the computer and I wasn’t getting done what I needed to get done in my duties as I wife and mother. So, I decided, well, I can learn and be productive at the same time. I went to I tunes, and downloaded about 15 pod casts on the law of attraction, the secret, whatever I could find. 2 out of the 15 pod casts stood out to me. One by the attraction Diva, Jen Blackert, and one with you. Now, I heard Jens first, and checked out her website, and signed up for the news letter. Then I heard you on an interview, about a 20 minute pod cast, and I listened to it about 5 times, because I knew you knew what you were talking about. I felt like you were talking to me. I went to your website, signed up and listened to your art of success course. Your teachings have transformed me and brought me to the next level. From thinking positive and doing what I was doing, the creativity in myself was starting to come out, but I didn’t realise how to use the tools, and what I needed to do. I am so beyond clear right now, its so amazing. I have completely let go of all anger, and forgiven myself and others, and each time I did and got rid of a little more negative energy, I feel my power getting stronger. Its like you said, its just like riding a bike, and once you know, you can’t NOT use it. I plan on listening to you everyday while I am on my journey, over and over, to make sure that subconscious of mine is changed. I know it has begun to because I feel different when I get up in the morning. I feel alive and free. I am going to be a spiritual adviser and teach others how to do this and I am so excited to see where this journey leads me.
Anyways, after listening to your 4th call, I went back to your website, and was looking and reading, and read about your recession rescue plan, and thought it sounded awesome. I checked my e-mail shortly after, and there was a e-mail from you, telling again about this program, and the free call July 8th. So I went to the page, and was reading it and started filling out the form to register, but thought to myself, well, I don’t really have a business yet, but as soon as the thought went through, I said to myself, doesn’t matter, you will by then, just do it. So I signed up. I went to my email after, and directly above yours was a email from Jen, telling me of this amazing offer, the ultimate entrepreneur tool kit, it has 20 of the best programs out there all about everything I need to know about getting going with my own business, and my websites are already started. Its just like you said, and I know I manifested that by making the choice to sign up for your call.
I am so happy I have been blessed to hear you speak, and I know where I am headed, and I am sure I will be seeing you along the way. THANK YOU!! Thank you for sharing, and I can only hope to touch at least one person the way you have touched me. I know I still have to experience my journey, but I feel like I am there, I feel so clear, on everything, and its so wonderfully amazing. -
Time Thief......your comments show that you don't truly understand Law of Attraction before offering your two cents. It's much more than "positive thinking." You should really watch the film "What the Bleep Do We Know" and read about the latest discoveries in quantum physics and consciousness studies by physicists such as Dean Radin, Amit Goswami and Dr. Fred Alan Wolf, before posting such simplistic cliches about a very complex subject and judging others.-
@LisaNYC
I've done the film and an immense amount of reading. I actually own the books I referred to above.
Now, how about you?
How are you doing with broadcasting your desire to become a supermodel to the universe? Please share your own unique testimony of your personal experience with the Law of Attraction. I'd like to hear it and I'm sure that others will be interested in hearing it too.
Also don't be shy. You can post an avatar depicting your own lovely face anytime you're ready so we'll all be sure to recognize you on the supermodel runway.
-
hello,Mistakes will not be the next! -
read 'in tune with the infinite' by Trine it has been around long before any of this 'secret' stuff way back when it wasn't profitable to be enlightened
Not a big fan of the secret and if you dont know who you are your core truth all you will manifest is an illusion
Stuff happens we dont get magic beans sometimes bad things happen to good people no matter what they are thinking-
@robinj
... if you dont know who you are your core truth all you will manifest is an illusion
Agreed.
-
-
Time Thief.....your posts and list of books shows you only have a superficial understanding of how the Law of Attraction really works. Your stuck in the Oprah zone, when it's really much, much more than that. "The Secret" is only the tip of a huge iceberg that briefly explains a bit about how it works, but doesn't really cover the subject adequately. In my opinion, Abraham-Hicks covers it more thoroughly, as do some quantum physicists out there, and some spiritual teachers who are extremely enlightened.
Brush up on your quantum physics, read some Goswami, and then we can have an intelligent conversation about the subject.
It's also much more than "creative visualization."
Also, I did cure a serious illness using LOA principles. So your scoffing at that possibility is also off-base.-
@LisaNYC
I don't watch TV frequently at all and have only seen 3 Oprah shows in my entire life. FWIW they were years ago and not on this topic.
I am concerned that The Secret and Abraham-Hicks' philosophy of feeling good and thinking positive thoughts always could lead to a suppression of critical thinking.
Keeping in mind, The Secret promotes feeling good and positive thinking despite what your current feelings and reality are, I'm concerned that this is very 'edgy' in that it's somewhat similar to what a cult espouses. My concern is that The Secret maybe akin to being cult-like in that in some people it may lead to suppressing critical thinking and to promoting a concept of 'ignorance is power'.
According to the research, even our most negative moods and thoughts serve a purpose. One of those purposes is the ability to think critically on a much higher level.
Research www.explore.rice.edu/explore/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=9163 conducted by Jing Zhouby, Associate Professor of Management at Rice University’s Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Management, naturally occurring bad moods helps employees be more creative and productive.- "Bad moods and negative attitudes have gotten a bad rap at work. For years, negativity has been considered an unavoidable — and unfortunate — part of organizational life; something that should be minimized, criticized, even stamped out. But if you want creativity that leads to innovation in your workplace, those naturally occurring bad moods can play a fruitful role; in fact, they’re necessary to make things better.
Negative moods should not be viewed as detrimental. They should be understood and treated as a necessary part of the creative process. I’m not advocating that managers go out and promote bad moods. But bad moods occur naturally, and when they do, managers should use these opportunities to encourage employees to identify potential problems and think of ways to improve things."
Researchers at the University of New South Wales School of Psychology have found www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-08/uons-era082004.php that individuals in a positive mood aren't as reliable as eyewitnesses who are negative. Apparently, if you're happy while observing an event your memory is more likely to include irrelevant and unreliable information.- "People in a positive mood such as happiness were shown under experimental conditions to have relatively unreliable memories, and show poorer judgment and critical thinking skills.
By contrast, those who experienced a negative mood such as sadness were shown to provide more reliable eyewitnesses accounts and exercise superior thinking and communication skills."
Perhaps Massimo Pigliucci Ph.D, professor of Ecology and Evolution at the State University of New York at Stony Brook states my concerns best: rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2007/03/immorality-of-secret.html
"The Secret is apparently a “theory” of channeling, the idea that by feeling something (positive or, more disturbingly, negatively) you somehow get the universe to “vibrate” in a way that will make your feelings determine physical reality. No need to worry about how this exactly (or even approximately) works: “Our job is not to worry about the 'how.' The 'how' will show up out of the commitment and belief in the 'what'.” Wow, Francis Bacon said that knowledge is power, thereby ushering in the era of modern science, but this is even better, here ignorance is power!
To me the Secret and LOA are neither hocus pocus nor a quick fix for what ails us. Having unwavering confidence in your goals, being willing to take action when given the opportunity to do, and visualizing as if you've already accomplished your goal will bring you success more often than not.
I wish you and all the other LOA folks well on your spiritual journey. You most assuredly are not alone, for the blogsophere is burgeoning with posts from those who are advocating for the LOA.
Best wishes to you all. -
That's bullshit! God schmod!
-
-
1. If you want to understand the universe, study physics. You can get an entire course on physics free here:
ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/index.htm
2. If you are troubled by feelings of ineptitude, do something useful about it.
For example, if you want to play in a famous band, take music lessons. Slow and steady progress is usually real and long-lasting. The Secret and the Law of Attraction are for people who are trying to shortcut slow and steady progress (and let's be honest, who doesn't?).
This is an example of a Law of Attraction type of solution that works in the movies:
www.amazon.com/Learn-C-Three-Days-Rachele/dp/1556227078
This is an example of a real-world solution that works in reality:
norvig.com/21-days.html
If you were creative, you'd be able to think up your own stylish variation on the originals (How to make friends and influence people, the power of positive thinking, Napoleon Hill's books, etc. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is only a few years old and it contains much the same snake oil) and make your own fortune off the feeble-minded who'd invest in nuclear waste if were on Oprah.
The success of The Secret indicates a critical lack of critical thinking. This is a friendly guide to the basics of critical thinking:
episkoposcain.blogspot.com/2007/03/field-guide-to-critical-thinking.html
FiLCHeRS stands for the rules of Falsifiability, Logic, Comprehensiveness, Honesty, Replicability, and Sufficiency. Read that useful guide and then take a long, hard look at The Secret again. If you still believe in it, I'm afraid I can't help you. I'm not adequately trained to deal with stupid. -
The one think I know and can be sure of, and its something that ANYONE can do, and its the choice I made when I started this journey, is to block all negative thought and feelings. Just try that first. I had NO clue, and hd only been one of those that watched the movie, and when I started, just thought, I am going to block out the negative. I never im my wildest dreams thought it was what it is, what I do know, I used to have a very low self esteem, really cared what everyone else thought, was a people pleaser. I feel so wonderful about myself now, there is just so much I can't fit it all here. All I can say is tht anyone who wants to try this out, all you have to do to start thinking all posative things, and be grateful for everything in your life. Commit to doing only that for 30 days, block all negative, don't have the "I should have this, or I shouldn't that." When it starts, the doubt starts, distract yourself. No watching the news with all the negativity on it. It won't hurt you to miss that for 30 days. If you really try and be aware of your thoughts, and make the choice to change them, you are going to notice the changes. For 30 years I have been trying to make myself feel better, self help books, lots of different things, and now after 4 weeks of this, I have completely changed my perception, I believe, I believe so much. I was lost, when I started, all I knew is I didn't want to go back to work and wanted to see if I could "secret" that. I doesn't have to be hard to let go and forgive. I thought it was before, but after blocking the negative out for that period of time, everything happened just the way it was supposed to, it was easy, like a light switch went off in my head, and I understand. All the negative thoughts, the things that happen, the things that create any bad feeling, those are all the apples, and we need to be focusing on the tree. Gods original purpose for us. YOu don't need to know what it is right now, just start training your mind, relise that YOU are in control of what you think, and what you feel. Make that choice to only think wonderful things about yourself, and our universe. Try is for 30 days, and see what happens. 2 more days, and it will be 30 full days that I have been doing this. I have no anger, I have had no issues, nothing but good things. I have a new inner peace, and my eyes are wide open, and I am looking forward, and I am excited!
-
OK, I'll try it. I love creative writing that results from not using a spell checker. It's super positive!
-
"is to block all negative thought and feelings."
Isn't this a little dangerous to do. I am not generally speaking a negative person filled with negative thoughts, but sometimes it is a negative thought that helps sound a warning bell.
I find it rather odd that on a discussion about the law of attraction there is a need to personally attack another poster ( not talking about you doing so Shrimpsey ) because they disagree. Not kosher at all.
-
-
Time Thief....this statement by you proves that you really, really don't get how it works:
"I am concerned that The Secret and Abraham-Hicks' philosophy of feeling good and thinking positive thoughts always could lead to a suppression of critical thinking."
That's totally absurd. LOA or Abraham-Hicks doesn't want people to shut off their critical thinking and become robots. In fact, people become more in touch with everything they're feeling and thinking by following it. You are waaaay off base again, girl! Once again, I really encourage to read more about quantum physics and LOA from those who understand it before spewing more misinformation about a subject you clearly know little about. -
Time Thief writes;
"To me the Secret and LOA are neither hocus pocus nor a quick fix for what ails us."
Of course. And anybody who believes in and fully understands how LOA works would agree with you. Again, this proves how little you truly understand it before dismissing it.-
I see Thimethief linking you to research. Granted, it's qualitative research, but still.
You should maybe try another book? One with less pictures that's unlikely to end up as a movie. This way, your view on LOA would be more balanced. -
LisaNYC,
I agree with you that so many people do not understand the LOA. I was introduced to LOA with the secret movie. I am a skeptic by nature and was skeptical of its message but wanted to believe. It started me on a journey that I am so glad I am on.
The Secret is the tip of the iceberg. It is simply an introduction to much broader metaphysical knowledge. Most people to not want to investigate anything past the superficial level and will discount everything.
People should learn more about the universal laws. It is more than just positive thinking. It is about transformation of your thinking and beliefs. It takes work. I try and teach people that it is a process and not a quick fix. If people do not investigate more they do get turned off and frustrated. Not because LOA does not work, but because they don't know. The laws of the universe work without fail. It more of them to understand than just LOA. -
I'm a sceptic. Meaning, I'm sceptic about organising my life around information I garnered from a film that's not on the Discovery Channel.
-
-
Beautifully put, reginaldcdotme!
Universal laws is exactly right. And for those who claim the power of our consciousness to affect outer reality "doesn't work" simply don't know what they're talking about, since it has been proven in quantum physics.
Time Thief.....read up on entanglement theory, read the work of the many physicists, scientists and educators who believe in LOA, and then maybe, just maybe, we can hold an intelligent conversation on this topic. -
"Most people to not want to investigate anything past the superficial level and will discount everything."
Great line, reginaldcdotme, btw. -
Time Thief.......did you know there are experiments in quantum physics where the outcome solely depends on the observer? That is, the result depends on the exact way the observer (experimenter) is looking at it, and the consciousness of the observer determines the results and supports the interconnection between everything, and the ability of consciousness to create and affect outcome.
-
@LisayNYC
The emotional investment you have made in repeatedly attacking me on the grounds that you possess an expertise in quantum physics has already drawn the notice of other members.
Please stop addressing me. Please turn your thoughts inwards and find the source of that nastiness that has been pouring out of you and that you are directing at me. The thinly veiled attacks do not become you and they sure aren't a good advertisement for LOA either. Please stop and look within you where you can find your peace. -
Please state your quantum physics credentials for the record. I'm thinking you have Schrödinger's cat by the tail.
-
-
Time Thief....whenever anybody disagrees with you, you label them "nasty," and is why private forums complaining about you have popped up all over the internet. We have little freedom of speech here on BC, and why so many members have voices their serious concerns about you off this board. I am not feeling nasty at all, and it's sad that whenever a poster disagrees with your know-it-allness, you complain to the moderators. It's also why I had you blocked after you sent me nasty, yes, nasty, shout-outs.
Rather than answering my points, you go on the attack ("nasty") and run like a baby to the moderators!
Of course...you don't like being proved wrong, do you, Time Thief?
Now....why not answer the questions that I asked you instead of going on the attack? Hmmm?-
No, you have not proved a single thing. You have disagreed, that is all.
-
@LisaNYC
There isn't any right or wrong here on this social forum. There is only an expression of opinion. I have politely expressed my opinions. You have been rude. -
-
-
-
Well, until I see something that looks like a BSC in Physics, you have your research to do young lady.
-
My thoughts on the subject are that you're free to believe whatever you believe. I don't see how it harms or affects me in any way. -
Time Thief -- anybody who disagrees with you is labelled "rude" by you. The outside forums are full of BC members you have pulled this on....and complain freely about you without the risk of being censored. I'm sure you'll have this post deleted by your connections with the higher-ups. So be it.
-
Why would you feel compelled to complain about BC members on other forums? When I am not on BC, I have my real life worries to deal with and moaning about people whose only interaction with me is on a discussion forum seems to be pointless.
I fully admit to knowing nothing about quantum mechanics. My background is just a few classes in basic physics, statics and strength of materials. My initial reaction to all of these references to quantum mechanics is that it is another situation in which a hard science (math and physics) has been derailed by soft science (psychology). If quantum mechanics, LOA, and EFT works as claimed, it should be able to proven mathematically. Physics is all about using math to explain natural phenomena. Not only should you be able to explain it with math, but you need to be able to predict the results with math.
I am not saying LOA and EFT don't work. I am open to anything that will help me turn this train wreck of a year around. I just don't know about the physics portion of it. Maybe it works for a different reason?
-
"There isn't any right or wrong here on this social forum. There is only an expression of opinion."
Yes, that's how it SHOULD be. But you censor and attack anybody who doesn't agree with you, and twist around reality to try and make yourself look like the victim. As above. -
Keep on attacking me, Time Thief. You only continue to show more of your true colors.
-
Your behavior will probably result this thread - shrimpsey's thread being deleted and her advocacy in favor of LOA to be gone. When what you said about LOA and how you tried to demean, and defame me is carefully screened I do believe we can see that your ego bested both you and the cause. That's truly sad.
-
-
Projecting again, Time Thief? Keep on attacking, girl!
-
Time Thief......I can understand why you launched your most recent vicious attack, since you lack the intellectual muster to answer the questions I posed you....so instead you threw names at me that reflect yourself, like "small minded," etc. But you really shouldn't stoop to such a childish level. You lose the little credibility you have left!
-
Credibility? It looks to me like you have suffering from a wounded ego and been filled with bitterness and "out to get me" for months. In what way do your repeated attempts to demean, defame and intimidate me here in this thread demonstrate that the LOA is working well for you?
-
I would like to comment on jafabrits comment about blocking the negative as being dangerous. This is what I know so far. I have blocked every negative out, and the wonderful thing is, there really hasn't been any negative to block anymore. I beat myself up everyday before I started this, if you new me before, you would be SHOCKED at the differance in me now as opposed to 4 weeks ago. When I first started blocking the negative, after a couple of weeks of doing so, my mind never felt so alive. I never knew I had somuch creativity inside of me, I never knew that I had so many ideas. It was like a switch went off in my brain, and turned everything on. Discovery channel or not, the knowledge is there, and when you start on this journey, everything you need starts finding you. Remember, only YOU can control your own thoughts and feelings. DON'T let others opinion, or out side influences affect the inner song of your soul. I can honestly say that anyone could say anything to me right now, even stuff that may have been a sensative subject to me before, but now, it will not phase me. I am still new in my journey, but I have NO DOUBT where I am going, and each and every one of you reading this, know matter how doubtful you are, is able to do this. Those who are looking for things to prove the theroy wrong, will find exactly that. I never even looked at a peice of information that says this doesn't work. I know it does, and I am looking to those who have been blessed to make it to the other side, and I see their success, and I just know.
I wish those who want to experience this much success on your journey. I am so excited to continue mine!-
"I beat myself up everyday before I started this, if you new me before, you would be SHOCKED at the differance in me now as opposed to 4 weeks ago"
I can understand if one is very negative all the time or beating one self up all time. I wouldn't be shocked at all shrimpsey, I saw this kind of change when working in the mental health field and patients/clients would do cognitive therapy and positive affirmations to counter negative thoughts. I am glad it has helped you.
I don't feel a need use the "secret", as a lot of it I have done most of my life using the basic universal principles that have been around for centuries (and which the secret has incorporated into their plan) and have been passed down from wiser relatives and other role models.
-
-
Bye, Time Thief.
Shrimpsey makes an excellent point above.....it's best to block out the negative, and in the here and now, that means you, Time Thief.
I'm done with your toxic energy. Enjoy this beautiful day fighting with yourself.-
I finally figured out the LOA!
You get to be positive.. by taking the wind out of everyone else's sails.
-
-
Didn't I see this on Oprah? -
-
So which part of 'asshat' is the universe going to send back to you?
By the way, she's not the only one who thinks that my blog deserves five stars. It's called an average..
-
-
Lisa: What do all these personal attacks against Timethief have to do with the credibility of the Laws of Attraction? She has her opinion, and you have yours. You don't expect everybody to agree with you, do you?
-
Question time:
Do people learning the laws of attraction and The Secret still believe in traditional talk therapy or is it all self directed? -
I tried as best as I could to articulate my concerns about the LOA which are focused on the dangers inherent in "blocking all negative thought and feelings."
I am concerned that The Secret and Abraham-Hicks' philosophy of feeling good and thinking positive thoughts always could lead to a suppression of critical thinking.
Keeping in mind, The Secret promotes feeling good and positive thinking despite what your current feelings and reality are, I'm concerned that this is very 'edgy' in that it's somewhat similar to what a cult espouses. My concern is that The Secret maybe akin to being cult-like in that in some people it may lead to suppressing critical thinking and to promoting a concept of 'ignorance is power'.
I also offered my sincere best wishes to those who follow LOA.
To me the Secret and LOA are neither hocus pocus nor a quick fix for what ails us. Having unwavering confidence in your goals, being willing to take action when given the opportunity to do, and visualizing as if you've already accomplished your goal will bring you success more often than not.
I wish you and all the other LOA folks well on your spiritual journey. You most assuredly are not alone, for the blogsophere is burgeoning with posts from those who are advocating for the LOA.
Best wishes to you all.
Sadly, what I received in return was repeated personal attacks and attempts to demean, defame and intimidate me into silence for doing so. More outrageous still are the repeated allegations that I am in a position to censor anyone's opinions on this forum. It seems plain to me that LOA is not working well for LisaNYC and that's too bad. -
Hi nothingprofound.....I don't agree with your interpretation of the events at all, so am unable to respond to your question in the way that you'd obviously like. But no, of course I don't expect people to always agree with me, but do hope to have a discussion without being attacked & criticized by the other person if they feel challenged, as Time Thief obviously did.
Anyway, I'm done with this. Have a great day.-
@LisaNYC
I am respectfully asking you to stop the thinly veiled personal attacks and insults. If you have qualifications and credentials in quantum physics then we are not aware of them. Hence your repeated scornful jibes ordering me to I become educated in quantum physics don't look good on you at all.
IMHO you have yet to even embark on a spiritual journey and this is evidenced by your dishonest attempt to invert the events that occurred in this thread.
It's plain to me and other members that you repeatedly launched personal attacks against me, rather than focusing on the subject which is LOA and The Secret. If you maintain that you are in possession of The Secret, and that LOA is working for you, then I'm hard pressed to see any evidence of that in your posts to this thread.
It's so sad that your practice of LOA seems to have interfered with your ability to override your ego and place yourself in a position where you could agree to disagree without becoming disagreeable.
-
-
wow! went away for a minute and you guys got nasty. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. We don't have to believe the same. If you are an advocate of LOA great! It works. If you are not an advocate great! it still works. The universal principles that underly the law of attraction work without fail. One does not need a quantum physics degree to understand it. Just a willingness to open up to the possibilities if you so desire.
We all should be able to respect our differences.-
@reginaldcdotme
I agree with what you have said. I was able to disagree without becoming disagreeable in this thread. I'm coming from the same place jafabrit is coming from when she said:
I don't feel a need use the "secret", as a lot of it I have done most of my life using the basic universal principles that have been around for centuries (and which the secret has incorporated into their plan) and have been passed down from wiser relatives and other role models. -
No, but one needs a degree in physics in order to make statements about what exactly it is that physics teaches us with marginal authority. The fact that evidence for this physics speciality is not forthcoming explains a lot about the correlation between lack of physics degrees and belief in LOA/The Secret.
-
-
Timethief,
Personally I believe the secret to be a good introduction to universal laws and metaphysics. However, the LOA is an oversimplification of universal principles. Too many people get excited about LOA without ever learning where it came from. LOA is not a universal law. It is marketing teachings that have been around for centuries. I don't knock it because of that. I do wish people would dig a little deeper. I try to help with that as best I can. It sounds to me that we all agree on the basic principles. That is what is important. Otherwise we start to act as though LOA is a religion, with doctrine that is never questioned. LOA for me is simply an introduction to a much more vast universe of metaphysical knowledge. -
Flamingpoodle,
The principles of what LOA speaks about were present and discussed long before the inception of quantum physics. The principles that quantum physics is now discovering was talked about in ancient Kemit (Egypt). They did not need quantum physics to validate there studies and we do not need it today. It's like saying have need to go to seminary before I can discuss Christ and God. the subject of LOA and religion all have components of metaphysical knowledge incorporated in them. How it is applied is different but know that specialized schooling is unnecessary to understanding and using metaphysical knowledge.You simply need the desire to learn.-
Why assume there are universal laws and principles in the first place?
Where's the evidence for that? As Paul Valery said: "What has everywhere and at all times been believed has every chance of not being true." -
Oh, yes. That explains why the Egyptians built monuments to shoot the souls of their dead rulers to the stars. Also, they were so enlightened that they worshipped cats and forced their rulers to have children with their own sisters.
So exactly when does LOA plan to bring slavery and loin cloths back? -
I guess when I am thinking of universal principles I think of for example the golden rule that crosses centuries and cultures.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity
-
-
nothingprofound,
universal laws are a fact. They are at the least scientific. I don't believe there is an argument over whether or not they exist. I mean really.
-
Actually, physics teaches us that there is a huge amount of argument over the nature of universal laws and whether they exist in the first place. In fact, some of the newer theories of physics seem to indicate that there are no universal laws and that they're all relative. However, I'm not trained in physics so you'd have to ask someone qualified to expand on that.
Since you don't believe in formal schooling, how many times have you had surgery done by a layman? By layman I mean someone without a medical degree but with a strong background in the LOA. -
Reginald: I hate to argue about such things, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I don't think universal laws are a scientific fact. I tend to agree with Hume that only phenomena is observable, provable. Laws are always an induction or extrapolation.
-
-
Some LOA supporters claim that it has been proven by quantum physics, based on the new-age stupid interpretation of the observer effect. The LOA is just your ordinary thinking positive attitude trick your grandmother told you 50 years ago. There is no quantum physics proof to the LOA. -
Flaming poodle will you quote where I said i do not believe in formal schooling? And what does someone having surgery have to do with the discussion that we were having?
Understanding quantum physics in not a prerequisite to learning the law of attraction or the universal laws or metaphysical knowledge. were were not discussing whether universal laws exist or not.
Your statements are incongruent and illogical. I am disengaging. have a great day. -
Either quantum physics backs up the claims of LOA and you can point us to these quantum physics sources, or quantum physics has no relevance to LOA and you're trying to legitimise a pseudoscience by mentioning it in the same breath as a legitimate science that you know nothing about.
-
-
The debunkers continue to spread their misinformation.
Done with this thread.
Their loss. -
Oh, almost forgot......you're totally wrong, urikalash, about there being no proof in quantum physics.
-
Are you referring to the observer effect?
-
Hello...?
-
-
I don't have time to read the article as I have limited time.
I fully disagree with removing all the weeds from my garden.
Those weeds can be used for compost/fertilizer to strengthen the positive growth of plants. The universe is made up of both positive and negative principals.
A positive work environment with no negative creates stagnation and boredom.
Great ideas also come from negative situations, the negative helps to support and strengthen positive ideas. It is necessary to have the negative and that is why God allows it.
In fact in the Egyptian pathenon, if Set didn't kill Osirus, there would be no resurrection or afterlife. Osirus was a mere vegetation God before Set had him fixed.
He helped to build him faster, stronger, better. I have visualized negative and positive for friends enemies and it works just fine.
I may use both or neither, it depends on my many moods and what I want to do with you. -
I found another 2 missing pieces to the secret. They are logic and reason.
-
-
I recommend the book total self confidence by Dr.Robert Anthony
to apply the LOA -
The Law of Attraction teaches that we attract into our lives whatever we focus on. Quantum Physics teaches that nothing is fixed, that there are no limitations, that everything is vibrating Energy. By understanding that everything is Energy in a state of potential and by applying the Law of Attraction to bring into our lives what we focus on, it is never necessary to feel stuck with an undesirable life.
We are Creators of the Universe. The classical physics of Newton takes a material perspective in which the Universe is composed of discrete building blocks, solid and unchangeable. Quantum physics takes a spiritual perspective in which there are no separate parts, in which everything is fluid and always changing.
The physical world is a sea of Energy constantly flashing into and out of existence. It is through our thoughts that we transform this ever-changing Energy into observable reality. Therefore, we can create our reality with our thoughts. With quantum physics, science is leaving behind the notion that human beings are powerless victims and moving toward an understanding that we are fully empowered creators of our lives and of our world.
With Newton, we were insignificant cogs in the Universal Machinery.
With quantum physics, we are Creators of the Universe.
Everything is Energy. Einstein’s 1905 formula E = mc2 explains the relationship between Energy and matter, i.e., that Energy and matter are interchangeable – that, in reality, everything is Energy – dancing, fluid, ever-changing Energy.
This Energy is influenced by our thoughts. It is shapeable, formable, and moldable. As Creators, we shape, form and mold the Energy of the Universe through our thoughts. We transform the Energy of our thoughts into the Energy of our reality.
The Physics of Possibility. The popular movie, What the Bleep Do We Know!?, clarifies that quantum physics is the physics of possibility. We have been conditioned to believe that the external world is more real than the internal world. Quantum physics says just the opposite. It says that what’s happening on the inside determines what’s happening on the outside. It says that our world is shaped by our thoughts.
Since nothing is fixed and everything is in a state of potential, everything is possible. As we understand that everything is possible, and as we focus our thoughts on what we want to attract, we can literally call into existence whatever we desire.
My ten-year old neighbor loves the expression – “It could happen!” He probably doesn’t know much about the physics of possibility, but he practices it with his great attitude. He reminds me to entertain possibility. He reminds me that nothing is impossible.
Dreams into Reality. The Universe exists as infinite potential in infinite abundance. As we focus our thoughts, we have the power to bring our desires into existence, our dreams into reality. As we focus our thoughts, we have the power to be and do and have whatever we desire.-
Source of my above comment
Kate Corbin is a Law of Attraction Life Coach and the creator of Gold Star Coaching. Both her coaching practice and her e-book, Dining at the Cosmic Café: How to Be and Do and Have Whatever You Desire, www.goldstarcoaching.com/ebook.html are designed to help people move from where they are to where they want to be and truly live the life of their dreams. To contact Coach Kate, learn more about the Law of Attraction, and to check out her e-book, visit www.goldstarcoaching.com/ -
Gold Star Coaching is run by a lady called Kate. Kate is not qualified to make any claims about quantum mechanics, as she claims to hold a Master's in humanities and a Reiki master certificate.
This is the wiki page on quantum mechanics:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics
It makes no mention of LOA or the Secret. It does however point out that quantum mechanics as a field studies phenomena at sub-atomic level. Particularly particles called quanta that exhibit wave-particle duality.
Now, I'm not a physicist, but the jump from sub-atomic particles to making all your dreams come true by wishing upon a star is quite a big one to me.
From the Wiki page:
While the seemingly exotic behavior of matter posited by quantum mechanics and relativity theory become more apparent when dealing with extremely fast-moving or extremely tiny particles, the laws of classical “Newtonian” physics still remain accurate in predicting the behavior of surrounding (“large”) objects—of the order of the size of large molecules and bigger—at velocities much smaller than the velocity of light
Since we're not dealing with extremely tiny particles, quantum mechanics is irrelevant to LOA. If you really believe that you can turn matter into energy or vice versa, I dare you to walk through a truck on the highway. I'm putting my money on Newton.
-
-
I respect your choices in beliefs, as well as everyone else's. I am not trying to change anyones beliefs, nor will anyone else change my beliefs. I was/am just sharing my personal journey of the growth I personally have received and the rewards I am enjoying as I continue to apply these teachings and principles to my life. All I know for sure is what I have felt and experienced. That is, I have never felt better about myself, or my life. I am excited and happy, and love learning more and more everyday. I am embracing the new found creative energy inside me. My relationship with my husband is fantastic, and keeps getting stronger and stronger, despite the fact that before this, I already thought and felt we were super strong, we are stronger now then before. I also would like to note, my husband at this time does not share my belief, but has been so wonderfully supportive about everything I am doing and learning. I have so much love in my heart to share, that I never realised before. Everything about my experience thus far, has been highly positive, exciting, adventurous and so free(free meaning the freedom I feel inside myself to be who I am and be proud of that). It has made me a better, stronger, woman, and to realise the wonderful potential that has been hidden inside of me for 29 years!
-
As far as I know, this is how the Law of Attraction relates to Quantum Physics:
One of the most famous experiments in Quantum Physics is the notorious Double Slit Experiment. You might wanna look it up for a full explanation, but the short and relevant part for our discussion would be this: If you fire a single photon of light (or an electron) through a thin plate with 2 parallel slits in it, you don’t get a simple pattern on the other side, like you would expect from particles going through 2 slits; what you do get is an interference pattern which is a known behavior of waves, not particles. It’s like the photon, which is often thought of as a particle, acted like a wave, went through both slits simultaneously and interacted with itself to create the interference pattern. If you want to prove that the photon went through both slits at the same time, you must place a detector in each of the slits to catch the photon when it passes, but when you do, the photon changes its behavior back to acting as a particle displaying a simple particle-like pattern on the other side of the plate. This is called The Observer Effect since the act of "observing" the experiment changes its outcome. The new age people claim that the presence of a conscious observer (the scientist conducting the experiment in the lab) is the sole responsible for this transformation, clearing the path to these wild theories that your thoughts can affect the physical world outside of your body; but the more simple, logical, and wildly acceptable explanation is that in order to detect a photon passing by, the detector must interact with the particle/wave, and by that action changes its behavior. So it's not just "observing" - it's "interacting". No need for any conscious observer; your mind didn’t affect the photon; the detector did.
Sorry, I would love to think that my thoughts can affect the physical universe, but the truth is that all this new-age quantum physics stuff you saw in “The Secret” and “What the Bleep” is just invalid.
p.s. The movie What The Bleep was made by students from "Ramtha's School of Enlightenment" - a well known and respected source of knowledge in the field of quantum physics... -
@Shrimpsy,
I started to write a long comment by breaking down all the physics claims you've just posted, in order to try and point out all the errors, but it is almost at every line. I don't know who wrote this piece of farce you just copied into this thread, it sure got some philosophical and poetical value, but valid modern science - it is not. If you understand Einstein's relativity and quantum mechanics, we could make a real physics discussion here on every line you wrote; if not - please try to avoid the physics stuff in the future since it is hurting your cause.
p.s. Also read my comment above this one. -
Shrimpsey-you are doing things now that are enriching your life. These things you're doing are based on your belief in the Laws of Attraction. Your belief in the Laws of Attraction may be unfounded and unjustified; however, that doesn't alter the fact that you are experiencing this enrichment. I suggest that it is most probably the things you are doing rather than the Laws of Attraction which are causing these positive changes in your life. Your belief in LOA has been a catalyst to enable you to discover powers and abilities within yourself. So whether LOA is really based on sound scientific principles is, in the final anaysis, irrelevant.
You may disagree with this, and I may be totally off base, but that's how I see it.-
I agree with everything nothingprofound wrote.
-
So do I. In Subjective Reality Q & A, Steve Pavlina contributes this:
Subjective reality is a belief system in which
(1) there is only one consciousness,
(2) you are that singular consciousness,
(3) and everything and everyone in your reality is a projection of your thoughts.
www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/05/subjective-reality-qa-3/
The purpose of your existence is whatever you believe it to be. You are free to manifest whatever you choose to believe. In the past you experienced powerlessness in varying degrees, because your POV and decisions were based on negative and limiting core beliefs you acquired from authority figures as a child. You were limited by those beliefs. Now, as a mature adult, you can jettison negative core beliefs and replace them with positive ones. Doing so means you can then think the most empowering thoughts that you can and take the most empowering actions that you can. Through this process you restore your natural innate power, the power to manifest by pure thought. It's no secret. -
There are only 3 options I see here regarding Subjective Reality:
1. Steve Pavlina is the only consciousness, he's talking to himself, so it would be best if Steve Pavlina would just shut up.
2. I'm the only consciousness, Steve Pavlina does not exist, fake characters shouldn't steel my own original thoughts, so it would be best if this fake Steve Pavlina would just shut up.
3. Steve Pavlina doesn't really believe in Subjective Reality, he's full of crap, so it would be best if Steve Pavlina would just shut up.
Conclusion: guess... -
Forgot one more option...
4. Steve Pavlina really believes in Subjective Reality, but all of us exist, so he's simply wrong, and should... well... you know... -
lol ...
guru slayer
-
-
Your belief in something that is helping you become a fully rounded and hopefully content individual is fantastic.
As in all religions/beliefs if it works for you, that is all that matters.
But no religion/belief is the be all and end all, it comes down to what you put into it and what you take away! -
Any comments by LOA believers regarding the physics stuff...?
-
I mean, if you take out the modern physics stuff, all you've got left is the banal centuries old positive thinking thing.
-
@urikalish
Exactly. That's what I pointed out above and was personally attacked over and over again for saying. I wonder why you weren't likewise attacked.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for the LOA acolytes to step up to the plate and prove their claims, as they maintain quantum physics verifies those claims when clearly this is not the case. -
I have a feeling that all the LOA supporters are going to disappear from this thread...
-
Me too. I don't think any have qualifications and credentials in quantum physics but if I am wrong and they actually do, then this is yet another opportunity to declare the same, and to substantiate their claims.
-
-
wrong place - see above ^
-
@timethief
Yes, you know I would LOVE to have a real physics discussion...-
Indeed I know that Uri.
-
-
I don't know enough about quantum physics to participate in a discussion, however I would be interested the thoughts of others. As far as "the secret" goes, this is what I can tell you now as a fact. It has now been 3 months and 1 week since I started. These are the following changes I have recieved
1. Peace of mind
2. Free from ALL negetive emotions without effort
3. Self confidence and self esteem I never once knew was possible.
4. A new sense of freedom
5. Improved marriage
6. 100% satisfaction in my life
7. Increased energy
8. Increased productivity
9. Increased graditude and love for others
10. More then tripled my yearly income AND get to stay home with my kids!
11. Book in the process of being published, and projected to reach over 1 million people
Each new day that passes, new oppourtunitues happen, life is exciting and fun, each day more and more wonderful things are happening. I don't know the intricate details about the science behind the quantum physics, I just know what I have experienced, and how to apply it to your life, and YES it works, 100%, I am not just "lucky"...its not "coincedence"....I learned how.....and I DID it!! YAY! Life has never been better, and it is only going to continue to get better! I am so excited about this journey, it is SO fun!-
@shrimpsey
G'evening. I'm so glad to hear you are doing well and accomplishing what you set out to do. I was excited to hear about the publication of your children's book. I too have learned how to accomplish my goals, and I did it using the information provided by so many others previous to the publication of The Secret and the LOA movement. I freely admit to knowing nothing about quantum mechanics and I don't recall you making any claims in this regard,. I believe it was another member who did but I don't have the time or inclination to read the whole thread again and verify that. Best wishes to you in all your do.
-
Add Your Comment
Login to leave a message.
