Discussions
Do You Think There is God?
Posted by Ging • 1/06/08 • Subscribe to this Discussion [RSS] • Report This Topic
Topics: Belief, God, Religious
If you think there is God, explain it and if there is none, explain it too.
User Comments
-
I believe there is a God (I am an Orthodox Christian).
I believe there is a God as while there is alot of trauma in this world we live, there is also alot of miracles that happen every day.
There is a higher being that helps us everyday, this higher being to me is God. Even though the hardships I and others have endured he has always carried us on his hands so we have come through them okay.
Some may say that there is no God and that you make your own destiny, I say that you make your own destiny but God helps you through your chosen path.
God means something different to a lot of people, to me he is a guiding light it making sure I follow a path where I can say that I have achieved good in this world and a path where I know that what ever happens he is here to help me.
P.S I always where my silver cross which has been blessed by Monks in Bulgaria when I leave home and it makes me feel safe.-
@ garydenness, when I was younger doing work in Houston, Fulbright & Jaworski pushed hard for me to go into law. They said I was a natural. And later, working in Washington, one of the most outstanding lawyers in Virginia pressed me hard saying I had one of the best minds he'd ever seen for the profession. I didn't and, had I, I'd be very well to do today. On the other hand, I knew a brilliant man who was far from being religious say, 'There must be a hell, because there're lawyers on earth'. I think I made the right decision :-) -
god is a jar of milk:)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI -
-
@skvnet
What an answer!!!
Do you like a black eye? I can give u many. Wish u r right infront of me. -
@weblogian
Do you usually give blackeyes on someone you met who has different faith than you?
wastedwisdom.blogspot.com/2008/06/imagine.html
-
-
No,
In all seriousness, if I believed in the Judeo-Christian God I would feel compelled to also believe in elves, fairies, unicorns, all the Indian Gods, Zeus, Apollo, kitsune, gnomes, and a million other things since the evidence for each of their existences is identical.-
interesting point of view. except that there was once a guy called Jesus that claimed he was God, died and rose again. many people met him and wrote about him.
i'm not sure anyone met the rest of the people you mentioned. -
Jesus never claimed He was God. The closest He got was to say, "No one comes to the Father but through Me." He never proclaimed Himself God, or the Savior. -
Meanna, what writing are you talking about? If you mean the Bible, then I have to accept the Bhagavad Gita, Bahai Texts, Buddhist Texts, Enuma Elish, Ethiopian Texts, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, Hindu Texts, Islamic Texts, Jain Texts, Mormon Texts (Church of Jesus Christ), Nag Hammadi Texts, Pistis Sophia, Taoist Texts, Sepher Yetzirah, Shinto Texts, Sikh Texts, Tibetan Book of the Dead, Urantia Book, Zen Texts, and the Zoroastrian Texts. Frankly, my brain can't hold all that.
-
Hi ghostytwofish
refarding Jesus saying he was (is) God:
>> John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
>> John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Those are just a couple of verses. Hope they make sense. -
Very little in the bibel makes an awful lot of sense. To believe you have made sense of it in any literal way requires a vivid interpretation, a liberal sprinkling of intepretation and quite often a lifetime's worth of brainwashing.
To believe in the bibel as a literal account is, in my opinion, to be a complete moron. To believe in it as a message of some sort? Cool. If that's your cup of tea. But again...why not then choose any of a multitude of fictional books that can explain how to live your life. Even better, why not just study law? -
Hi garydenness
Interesting points there. When you say why not study Law instead of the Bible, are you refering to the Law that came from the Bible? -
Techfun, to feel that compelled is definitely a compulsion to avoid :-)
-
@ MeannaBlog
">> John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
>> John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. "
Yes, perfect sense. Being Hindu, I can happily make the same statements.
Aren't you one with God? Didn't you exist before the world began?
-
-
I believe there are higher beings, but because I believe there are higher beings.
I can not prove it, or disprove it. Statistically, whether god exists or not does not influence our actions anyway. -
I personally don't believe there is a God, which in some circles makes me an atheist, based on a loose, but common, usage of the term. I do not KNOW there is no God, and frankly, I don't believe anyone else does either, which in some circles makes me agnostic.
If you've ever seen 1 Giant Leap, there's a great interview with Mike Oldfield, in which he likens God to a magician (purely metaphor, he's not trying to be insulting). A magician doesn't want to reveal his tricks, and so couldn't we imagine God also doesn't want us to know how it was all done? Maybe there's a reason we have different definitions for "faith" and "knowledge".
I don't find a belief in God (for any value of God) to be simplistic, foolish or worthless. We all have a need to express wonder with the Universe, and with the fact we find ourselves part of it. A faith in the Divine is one of the ways in which people express this wonder. -
I believe in God. I'm Catholic. As for proof... there's a book called A Case for a Creator.
Think about it. Where did this universe come from? All the scientific theories in the world don't really answer that. They all assume something being present at the beginning, like the idea of some super-dense substance that exploded in the Big Bang. But where did that something come from? And why is there so much order in the universe? If it was all random chance wouldn't things be rather more chaotic? Sure, it's complex, but orderly.
Jesus was also a real person. There's historical evidence for Him.
I could go on, but I have a feeling I've already said enough to make a few people here angry.-
brigid: Regardless of my personal beliefs, or lack thereof, I definitely find the words of Christ inspiring!
-
There is also Much More historical evidence for John the Baptist... and that the church had to suppress and incorporate his followers who believed that JB was the real Messiah. -
...
Well, it's true that there's little beyond the one paragraph is Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews. That's if you discount the entirety of the New Testament, the earliest copies of which date back fairly close to when Jesus lived. We should have such evidence for all known historical figures.
I'm not really sure where you're coming from with that stuff about John the Baptist. I heard that allegation once before, but with very little hard evidence to back it up. -
brigid: as far as I know, the earliest copies of NT books originate around 300 AD with the First Council of Nicea. Are there earlier copies, and who has them now?
-
Well, I am fairly certain that is the first complete copy, yes. There have been fragments that date back much earlier. I think most scholars (though I could be wrong) agree that the earliest books were written toward the end of the 1st century of the beginning of the 2nd.
So it's possible that people within living memory of Jesus wrote those books. -
Actually, no. There is NO historical proof that Jesus existed.
The authors of The Bible (No. God did not write it!) were among the world’s first plagiarists, borrowing from myths older than themselves to create the mythical figure they called Jesus Christ.
Almost all the events of the supposed life of Jesus appear in the lives of other mythical figures of far more ancient origin. Nearly all such 'signs' had been ascribed to other gods, centuries before any Jewish holy man strolled about. Christ’s supposed utterances and wise statements are equally commonplace, being variously stolen from Jewish scripture, neo-Platonic philosophy or commentaries made by Stoic and Cynic sages.
Here are five fictional gods who served as the basis for the mythical Jesus Christ:
Three thousand years before the Alleged Christ, there was the mythical Egyptian savior known as Horus. He was born of a virgin on December 25 in a manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. At 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized in the river Jordan by "John the Baptist". He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses.” He performed miracles. Horus walked on water. He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount". He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected. - He was also described at the time as the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," "the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc. - He was "the Fisherman" and was associated with the Fish. - Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One." - Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
Next, just twelve hundred years before the alleged Christ, there was the mythical Greek god named Attis.
Attis was born on December 25 of the Virgin Nana. He was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. His priests were "eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven." He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On "Black Friday," he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected on March 25 (the same day later claimed for Jesus) and called the "Most High God."
Also twelve hundred years before the alleged Christ, there was the mythical Persian god, Mithra.
Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25 in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts. He had 12 companions or disciples. He performed miracles. Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace. He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. His sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ. His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper," at which Mithra said, "He who shall not eat of my body nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved."
Then, just nine hundred years before the alleged Christ, there was Krishna in India.
Krishna was born of the Virgin Devaki ("Divine One") on December 25. His earthly father was a carpenter. He died around the age of 30 on a tree, crucified between two thieves. He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. He was deemed the "Son of God" and "our Lord and Savior," who came to earth to die for man's salvation.
One more. Just five centuries before the alleged Christ, there was Dionysus, a Greek god. Dionysus was born of a virgin on December 25 and, as the Holy Child, was placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed miracles. He was the God of the Vine, and turned water into wine. Dionysus rose from the dead on March 25. He was considered the "Only Begotten Son," Savior," “Redeemer," "Sin Bearer," Anointed One."
And, of course, we all know the story of Jesus Christ because we just read it FIVE times.
The earliest defenders of an earthly flesh and blood historical Jesus came along in the 2nd century, and even at that time none of them was able to provide proof for the existence of Jesus, instead they relied on theological reasoning and scriptures to support their claims, eventually winning out through political force, not the validity of their claims. -
I could provide proof, but it's apparent that you wouldn't believe it. Too bad. There's an entire world you're blinding yourself to.
-
Brigid, you could provide absolutely no proof of god whatsoever. Historical evidence for the existence of Jesus is scant to say the least. You have stumbled into the oldest 'excuses' for god known - god of the gaps. "Look at what we don't know - it must be god".
There is ample evidence that does prove that mankind invents religious beliefs. There is ample evidence that shows bibel stories have been passed to christianity from other religions.
Why is there so much order in the universe? We're going down the 'chance' road are we? According to Dumbski of the DI, god is proven because the chances of the universe being as it is by chance is too great for it to be possible. Sadly for him, the chances of me playing the two games of chess that I just played, in the exact way I just played them produces an even bigger number. I must be god. Please send letters of adoration, and cheques made payable to God to P.O. Box 114, London.
Of course the fact that I am 'intelligent' partially negates my argument. The fact that beetles places on a board could reproduce it, eventually, holds it up.
-
-
I searched BC discussion tags for "God" and came up with with more than a page's worth of entries: www.blogcatalog.com/discuss/tag/God . I'm not a fan of these threads (quite the opposite), but some people here are.
-
*nods*
Not sure why techfun dragged this topic up from the dirty BC vaults. -
Thomas: I didn't notice its age. It was on the Related Discussions thing. As far as why I commented, I'm still a bit freaked out that a religious extremist who has suggested quarantining people who are HIV positive has won the Republican caucus in Iowa.
-
Aye. A bit scary. I don't care what his religion is, but some of his stances are a bit over the top.
-
techfun: I share your concern. Very scary.
-
lol
-
-
I believe there is a God.
Being Hindu, I use that religion to describe, in terms that I understand and can agree with, what God is to me. However, I also recognize that God is many things to many other people, some of which do not see eye to eye with what I think God is.
God is not limited by my beliefs, or my religion. In fact, I may be completely wrong concerning my beliefs of Him - but, more likely, my beliefs are simply inaccurate and fall short of the truth. Even atheism is, in a way, a path to truth, and therefore a path to God. So is every faith that has ever existed on Earth.
God is not limited by anything. God is a concept that has existed in every empire, every race, every creed, every culture since the dawn of man. Although God changes from place to place and time to time, there has never been a time when He (or She, or It) did not enter the mind of man in some form.
God, Brahman, is beyond my mental grasp. I cannot imagine Him, and neither can you. He is all of reality, and transcendent of reality. He is all of time, and beyond time. He is you, and I - and beyond us both.
That is God to me. Brahman, as Isvara so I can grasp Him. Isvara is a way of saying as Vishnu so I can talk to Him, as Ganesha so I can ask of Him, as Arjuna so I can learn from Him, as Subhadra so I may marvel at her beauty, a thousand times over.
God is Jesus, and Mohammad, and Buddha, and the Great White Spirit. God shows himself in the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, the Vedas, and every work of man and every thing in nature. Nothing exists outside of God.
Isvara is just another way to look at Brahman because I cannot possibly see God as He in all his glory actually is. It would be like trying to look at the universe, and all of time, and all possible times, all at once.
And yet ... as much as God is unfathomable, God is also unmistakable. We look at physics and see that the evidence shows that the universe must have started as a single point, a Big Bang. What caused that point, that singularity, to burst forth into matter and energy? We don't know. Logic - causality - dictates it didn't happen by itself, so ... what, then?
We look at genetics. Mankind shares it's genome not just with apes of 5 million years ago, but with reptiles 50 million years ago. The same genes, the same receptors and insertions, used and reused since life began. Why? Did a molecule as complex and life-guiding as DNA happen by chance? Yes - but what other chance was there? None. Any good biochemist can tell you that.
The universe, then - on purpose? No, we have no evidence for the hand of God. Which is good. You can believe He is there, not not. The choice is yours - but it does make the singularity, the promotion of DNA, quantum probability and a host of other quandaries much easier to handle. An intelligent scientist does not discard a hypothesis simply because there is no physical evidence to support it, as any theoretical physicist worth his term at Cambridge knows.
Brahman. The all-pervading spirit, the One, the All, the Everything ... including me. Including you.
That is God to me.-
That was awesome! Thanks for sharing it.
-
That was very good, indeed. The challenge then is obviously not to understand God, since that must be forever beyond the grasp of conceptual mind, but to experience God. That had happened to people through all times as well. What this means to those who did can also not be understood by the conceptual mind. Experience is individual and personal. -
Good piece. Nicely put across!
-
-
To me, god is a term given to represent the laws of nature. As for an entity "God"? No. And there is no Santa Clause either. Still researching the easter bunny. I'll get back with you on that. -
The idea of getting something from nothing makes no sense. How did everything get here if nobody made it?
DNA is close to apes because we are all made from the same "stuff" It does not prove God didn't design the entire thing. Scientist use that excuse all the time but it doesn't prove anything.
It's not like if God made everything here he would make us from DNA and animals from straw. Everything is made from the same stuff so we should be very close to animals.-
The idea of getting something from nothing makes no sense. How did everything get here if nobody made it?
-- Ah, and thus another love with theoretical physics blossoms.
DNA is close to apes because we are all made from the same "stuff" It does not prove God didn't design the entire thing. Scientist use that excuse all the time but it doesn't prove anything.
-- Science isn't about proving things, it's about disproving things. Things that cannot be disproven must be. And, good science always brings more questions than it answers. By the way, while our DNA is close to what chimpanzees have, it is not close to plants, or 99.98% or the rest of the living things on this planet. This doesn't prove God designed, or didn't design, anything. What it does prove is that receptors and insertions are the same in every carbon-based, DNA-inhereant life form.
It's not like if God made everything here he would make us from DNA and animals from straw. Everything is made from the same stuff so we should be very close to animals.
-- We are. In fact, we share more similarities with animals than differences because of that DNA structure. However, DNA is not the end-all of human creation. Nurture, which turns genes on and off throughout life, is just as responsible for our genetic strength as a species as the genes themselves are. There is no nature vs. nurture - it's a nature AND nurture thing. -
Science knows (and tells me) that there are electrons and what the speed of light is. I would be foolish to reject that knowledge. Science also tells me, with just as much assurance, that living things have evolved. I know that knowledge has been tested, tried, experimented with, and applied to real situations, and has proven its "fitness" by growing stronger through 150 years of severe testing. I would be foolish to reject that knowledge.
So no, I don't believe in evolution; I KNOW that it has happened and still does. As a matter of fact, I should probably feel insulted. If you asked me if I believe the Earth is round, that would be insulting. Do you think I could be so ignorant as to believe it is flat? The same goes for evolution. Do you think I would reject the last two centuries of scientific progress and the evidence of my own eyes? I should be thoroughly offended. -
I am delighted to say that I have avoided the "progress" of Darwinian Evolutionary "Science" and remain in the reality where men and women can know God and believe that because He is a God of order, therefore the world can be understood through observation (Science).
I have participated in hours of conversation, pages of blogging, and years of observing people. I still haven't seen a persuasive reason to believe that life originated by any "evolutionary" process or that any "evolutionary" process caused the differentiation of that life into modern day species.
I don't have enough faith to believe that life or species came into being via Natural Selection or any other Evolutionary Mechanism.
:-)
ThirstyJon
-
-
long time ago god and christ are fake phrophets sp that it will gain the public order,people go churches they obey religions to cover up the real truth of the first civlization in this planet in a secret place the book of knwoledge is head i say no more-
Good, because I would have to take up a discussion with someone who believes human history is only as old as churches. That would be very difficult to say the least.
-
lol i said first civlization on planet that fish doesnt mean churches were at same time you havent really got a good sense have you
-
-
Of course there is, you silly. I'm not intellectually capable of explaining his existence, however.
-
No. I don't think there is a God.
I know there is a God.
I know this from what I have seen before I knew anything, and from what I have been shown, and what I have been told.
God cannot be thought. God can only be known.
And I also know there is a celestial existence as close to us as breath that revers, honors, and worships Him.
I know God cannot be known well, easily or at all because of thoughts, ego, or internal conflict.
Yet, anyone ready to walk a road of stones will know Him, and when this is achieved nothing on earth will weigh him down or own him ever again. Nothing.
And when His love glows and swells from within, from the inner center out, nothing will ever look the same again. Nothing.-
Isn't it a tad arrogant to say that people who doesn't believe in your god have a big ego or have an internal conflict?
-
Jungl have you broke your resolution again this year -
.ink. isn't saying that. Only that it's difficult to get to know God because ego and such get in the way. Even those who believe in the same God will have that difficulty, it's part of the human condition.
-
You contradict yourself. You say, "I know God cannot be known well, easily, or at all" but then you profess to not think there is a god, but to know there is a god, and go on to sound very knowledgable on the subject in which you said before, "I know God cannot be known well, easily, or at all".
How is it that you can say that god can't be known at all, and then say with great confidence that you know god?
You also say, "God cannot be thought. God can only be known."
and the hole gets deeper...
-
-
I'm not sure, how to explain that? -
To those that do not believe no proof is possible to those that do believe no proof is necessary-
What about 50-50? Wanna believe but hard sometimes?
-
You are right. It is a sound thought. It is perfect.
Belief is semantic. Thoughts are semantic. Belief is a concept. It begins and ends in itself. It mirrors itself. No matter what the belief is, this is so. Belief is irrelevant to the truth. Even when it matches a truth all agree on.
There is no proof. There is no proof for any transcendent truth. There never will be. There are things that cannot be subordinated to logic. Even in common everyday living.
There is a reality that cannot be captured or encapsulated in or by vocabulary and structured thought. I cannot put into words the experience of the beauty of a field of wild flowers, nor can I put into words the beauty of the experiences of the transcendent, celestial, and God.
Those who have traveled the 'road' come back to say what they've seen, what they've experienced. Some will believe, others will not. But the experiences and knowledge of the traveler remain true.
And if belief must have a role in the matter of God, then it is proper to say that one's disbelief is proof there is a God. If one is truly rational, truly intelligent, this will make sense. If one is stunt-clever, it will not. Such a person will waste their lives in opposition to the truth. And such a person will not know God. -
To those that do not believe no proof is possible to those that do believe no proof is necessary...
I don't know about that. If there were some realistic evidence other than Dogma written by human beings that showed some real, tangible evidence of a God, I doubt many people would be denying the existence of God. The problem is that there isn't ANY. -
antibarbie, reread both posts. humbly, you have demonstrated what is written.
jungl, there's a misunderstanding from that para; please review the post again.
(It is 4am; I must retire) -
aliasinkhorn:
Both of your posts come off as smug and condescending. Everyone who doesn't believe what you do is wrong. Ok, gotcha. Now go spew your defunct logic elsewhere. -
antibarbie: I think I'd like to marry you.
-
No way, I saw her first.
-
Well, ok. And I am batting for the other team. Still, can I marry her metaphorically?
-
antibarbie, thank you.
-
Unfettered: I have nothing against sharing in that case, but, ah, better see what *she* thinks.
-
I wish I could remember which Greek philosopher it was who looked at the order of the visible world and concluded that a higher intelligence was responsible for its creation.
The concept of this supreme being he came up with was a lot different from the Judeo-Christian concept, but it's still very interesting.
-
-
Mathematically, life cannot be by accident.
Take a pile of house building material and place it on a hill.
How long will it be until it randomly produces a house?
Well, human life is far more complex than a house, so how long would it take to accidentally create human life?
We know Darwin was out to lunch (although prehistoric academia still sells his rather alcoholic haze concept), so what else could it be.
oh, but make no mistake about it. The god has NOTHING to do with religion, or christianity, or any of that "do this or go to hell" bunk. You need "hell" in christianity to necessitate "heaven". other than that, the collection plate would always be empty, and the churches could never get painted or renovated. certainly the Pope would not be wearing gold and silk.
By the way, if I were Christ, and I came back here, the Pope is the first guy I would have to settle up with. Babies starving in the streets, countries impoverished and starving, and he is living like a king. Time to pay up mister.
Fear sells, and religion keeps buying.
I prefer spiritualism myself. :>)
This is fun!-
Actually, when considering biochemistry and genetics, it's not a case of randomly piling bricks at all. Proteins work with DNA receptors one way, and only one way. This boils all the way down to the very structure of DNA, which is, for all intents and purposes, a protein factory.
So, it's not so much randomly piling bricks until you get a house, but that, in this case, the bricks can only form houses when piled. -
Precisely. And not only that, but where did such specialized bricks come from? I know analogies have their limits, but to extend it a bit the building materials had to come from somewhere, too.
-
Yes, bricks are a bad example. Puzzle pieces are better. Proteins fit into genetic receptors when they fold into the right pattern. Proteins that fold into the wrong pattern don't fit, and those that fold into the right ones, do.
That's really all there is to it as far as the switching on and off of genetic traits goes, chemically (there's much more than that, of course, but it isn't chemical). The only pieces that fit are, well, the ones that fit.
The ones that don't have no effect on the genome in that organism at that time. Since proteins can fold into those "wrong" patterns, however, even after many millions of years of evolution, it stands that uses for them must exist elsewhere in nature - just not for those particular receptors. -
Creationists are fundamentalist Christians who believe that the account of creation in the Book of Genesis is literally true. According to creationists, the Earth is only about 6,000 years old, Adam and Eve were the actual ancestors of all living people, and Noah´s flood occurred exactly as described in the Bible.
Creationists ignore the basic premises of science. -
What does that have to do with what we're talking about? We're talking about Intelligent Design, not Creationism. There's a big difference.
Creationism assumes that the Genesis account is literally true word for word.
Intelligent Design assumes a creator of the universe but acknowledges that the Genesis account is more allegorical than literal.
-
-
Yes..i believe in God.
-
Perhaps the only thing more absurd than a bearded man living in the air above us who knows everything we think, say or do, is the ridiculous concept of God answering prayer, interceding in basketball games or influencing disaster.
We’re sick of hearing basketball players say, "I'd like to thank my lord and savior, Jesus Christ for winning this game." Didn’t see Jesus out there on the court. Besides, he’s too short to play basketball.
You hear it on award shows, when rappers win. “Thanks for this award for “Hos With Big Booties” I gotta give props to my main man, Jesus. He supports me in everything I do.” Even the cocaine?
If we believed what evangelicals told us, God flooded many areas in the US recently as punishment for our immoral society. According to the Reverend Graham Dow, a leading evangelical, “This is a strong and definite judgment because the world has been arrogant in going its own way.” He blames the God-sent disaster on three things: God’s pissed that we are ruining the environment, God’s upset with our wide-spread greed, and of course, God hates gays.
We must point out that God, himself, is obviously gay. Think about it. Unmarried for 6,000 years. Allows a human woman to have his only son. Always wears white robes.
Remember, natural disasters kill and injure indiscriminately. Everyone was affected whether or not they were believers or non-believers, moral or immoral, straight or gay. An all-powerful and righteous God would be more targeted in his wrath.
Any natural disaster can be interpreted as judgment from God. Just yesterday, lightning struck a Baptist Church in Baltimore. The resulting fire utterly demolished the building. Apparently God hates Baptists as much as he hates gays.
If God punishes behavior of which he disapproves, it is reasonable to suppose that he rewards behavior of which he approves. In the Western World, our life-expectancy and quality of life have undergone enormous improvements over the last few centuries. This must be a reward from God because Western society has become much less religious and more rational.
That’s it! God is rewarding us for being Rational Thinkers. What other explanation can there be for our prosperity and comfort?
-
-
Thou shalt not kill.
Kill people?
Kill bugs?
Kill time?
How about kill this discussion?
Wouldn't that be a sin too?
The commandment is not specific.
;>)-
I believe the correct translation is "Thou shalt not murder", which only goes to prove that any grouping of crows is inherently evil
-
The term, taken from the Hebrew, specifically referred to killing people. (I wish I had my Jewish Bible here, but I think my brother has it.) Ancient Jews killed stuff all the time - including each other and their enemies, long after the tablets were handed down.
The reason for those commandments wasn't that God expected man to follow them - in fact, it was a losing proposition and God knew it. It was to show that no matter how hard man tried, he could never be perfect enough to satisfy God. Which brings in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf, and thus why he's the savior, etc etc.
In that light, the commandments make perfect sense.
Unfettered, on the ball again. -
Very well stated ghostly. You can have the stage all day as far as I'm concerned.
Oops - I put this in the wrong spot - this was in response to the Free Will/Destiny post you made below. My bad!
-
-
now ghosty as that is proven i agree with you on that alot of effort goes into to it
-
I don't think.
It's overrated. -
i dont know if i would believe that their is GOd or Not!
i am still confuse on his existence!
because for me we the people is the one who makes our own fate!-
Ah, tarius007, you touch on one of my favorite topics. I love the fate conundrum. I personally believe that free will is an illusion, one that is meant to teach us on intellectual and spiritual levels. Many people believe that free will is the ultimate shaper of one's reality, and of the cosmos itself. It's my favorite debating ground.
-
i personally believe that Reality is an illusion.
-
Buddhist?
-
no... but i could be. Buddhism is a lot less intellectually confining than modern day christianity.
-
ghosty - your posts are fascinating. Screw the debate - I'd just love to hear more of your thoughts on free will vs destiny. I've always found that fascinating and quite a "conundrum" indeed.
Me personally, I believe in god (raised Catholic). I also believe in evolution. I believe that we were intelligently designed to be able to adapt/mutate/naturally select and ultimately evolve.
I love science, but I've never heard a worthwhile explanation for how the elements and proto elements that supposedly existed in the instant just before the big bang came to be. What (or perhaps more correctly "who") begot them?
Interesting topic in my opinion. -
Oh man, don't ever offer me a stage. It's just not wise.
I can give you an idea of where I'm coming from with free will, though. The universe is set up to the present moment - any other choices have branched off in their separate time lines before this, so where "we" are is where we are. From here, it's forks in the road all the way - what if I do this, what if someone else does that.
The problem I had for a long time was with those forks. I couldn't ever concieve of a moment when I'd create a fork of my own - rather, the possibility is always there, and whether I take that turn or not might simply depend on whether I see the turn for myself.
So, I have to assume that, since all possibilities lay before me, that God, who created me and knows me better than I know myself, knows which fork I am going to take ahead of time.
It's like the Oracle told Neo: Knowing what choices are going to be made isn't what's important. Knowing WHY those choices are made is. -
At the same time that Christians claim to worship God as an omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being, they make him out to be incompetent bumbler. Or worse. Simple forgiveness is beyond his capacities. God must "sacrifice himself to himself to change a rule he made himself!"
This is not only an absurdity, it is an essential absurdity. It is present in almost all forms of Christianity, and one can scarcely remove it and remain a Christian in anything but name. By definition, all Christians worship Christ - in some form - and most worship him as a saviour.
But what, exactly, is he saving us from? Though it varies from church to church, no matter what they call it, it's God himself. A hell created by God, a world fallen as a result of God's negligence, a separation from God imposed... by God.
Christianity certainly isn't the first religion to promote appeasement of its gods, and if it were merely another supernatural protection racket, it would be bad enough. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. Christians elevate appeasement to the realm of "personal relationship", transforming their religion into a true monstrosity.
This is the type of "relationship" that abused wives have with their husbands, that brainwashed hostages have with their captors. It is known in clinical circles as Stockholm Syndrome. Should it come as any surprise that the cries of the church, "The Bride of Christ" sound much like the cries of an abused wife attempting to protect her husband?
"He must beat me."
"I deserve it."
"He has no choice."
"It's for my own good."
These excuses don't work for human abusers, and they work even less well for God. For if God is omnipotent, he must have a choice. And if we are flawed, we are only flawed because that is the way he made us. (No excuses that we ruined his perfect creation. A truly perfect creation does not self-destruct.)
If the Christian God does exist - and I see no reason to believe that he does - he's not worthy of the name.
And that is the ultimate absurdity of Christianity.
-
-
I do believe in God. -
I believe in Snuffleupagus. Why? muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Snuffleupagus
-
I forgot all about that character. I used to watch SS all the time with my cousins.
-
-
free will is achievable in both senses you have pointed yet it seems not to happen alot many great speakers have died becaus of free will yet i still think it must be put across
-
i think god has been created by us the mankind and has made alot of people fight and have very vivid views in which we ourselfs dont know how we really got here and we will never know unless the book of knowledge is realeased form underneath a certain location.
-
the keeper of genenis is pretty good book to read
-
yes evolution because destiny is in ur hands and we only use ten percent of our brains therfore imagine wot we coukld use if we had half of that it may get slighlty uncontrabble at some stage perhaps that why we only can use ten percent because if you had bad people that used alot of thier brains it would course huge problems
-
you speak the text of someone else that was apparently created by the so-called god
-
so the words are not to a proven state
-
Finding God Within and Without
by: Author Unknown, Source Unknown
How do I find You God?
God is Love.If you have ever loved,If you have ever been loved,You have experienced Godfrom Within and Without
God is Truth.If you have ever told the truth,If you have ever discovered Truth,You have experienced God from Within and Without
God is Beauty.If you have ever helped to create something beautiful,If you have ever witnessed beauty in any of it's myriad forms,You have experienced Godfrom Within and Without
God is Good.If you have ever done or thought something good,If you have ever recognized goodness in or through another,You have experienced God from Within and Without
All of those experiences, those gifts,of Love, Truth, Beauty and Goodness were directly from God through you. or to you.
Glad to Meet You God. let's hang out together. -
I believe in an ordered universe. There is something which created the order, physics, biology underneath the universe. I think it is very similar to David Bohm's idea of Implicate Order, or a universal set of rules and states that runs through all things. I think by trying to express the idea in written religious or scientific ideology we fail to fully grasp what we are trying to comprehend.-
Well, it would be difficult to believe in an un-ordered universe. We don't happen to be in one.
It is not the order that humans would use, however. It is, by our best definition, highly regulated chaos. -
The level of complexity in the universe makes my head spin. But even without an advanced degree in quantum physics I understand the order behind the mayhem.
And the huge pile of coincidences necessary for this planet to even be suitable for life, never mind getting life started in the first place. -
Ahh, but that's the fault in the logic. It's not coincidence. It's actually the only way it COULD have come together. The complexity of the universe was the only logical way it had to work itself out. It didn't "just happen." It happened because this was the only outcome available.
-
Not necessarily. Change one little thing at the starting point of the universe and something totally different could have occurred.
Yet this is how it happened.
It's the knowledge of what could have been but what actually is that's amazing.
-
-
agian this might sway a bit of the subject but people only go to churches because they fear death.
-
Eh? Since when?
That sure isn't the reason I go to church. And I go every Sunday. (Well, once in a while I go Saturday evening instead, but I do go once a week.)
Of course, I don't want to die. So to avoid that probability I eat right, look both ways before crossing the street, and don't hang out in dark alleys. I also don't leave open flames unattended.
Going to Mass has more to do with the state of my immortal soul than the death of my physical body. -
James, no.. there is no fear of death for those who believe. For those who believe, going to church is all about worshiping Him. I don't go to church out of fear. God is love and there is no fear in love.
-
-
What are my choices? Happenstance vs Design?
I'd have to go with design.-
A lot of scientists do. Particularly those with an emphasis on cosmology and other 'big picture' fields.
-
-
I do believe in God, in a sense. I do not however believe in God in the biblical terms. Higher power is more like it. When I think about the image of God I dont see a long haired white guy. I see everything. I believe that God embodies all this in the world. "It" can be anyone or anything. I believe "it" is all around us.
How can we believe in something (the bible) that we have no proof what so ever that its true. The bible was written by a bunch of old white guys, you dont think they changed some stuff in their favor.
I believe in a spiritual higher power because I know it is there. I can feel it.
www.ashleyallred.com-
The Hebrews were a bunch of 'old white guys'?
Now that's a new one to me.
-
-
no human being is intelligent enough to say if there is god or no, and i don't believe any human being had any contact with god in the past, present or future, prophets are only opportunist mans with charisma but they are not god messengers or angel or god sons they are only normal human with more ability to talk to people and make them listen to them and probably smarter then the mass but their is nothing magical or spiritual about it
-
You make some strong assertions there. Can you offer any evidence?
-
can you prove i'm wrong? can you give me any evidence that their is god? or any prophets?
-
-
i forget : yeah i have fate but not in a religious way! their is surely a power somewhere, a master of puppet their is something but i am not intelligent enough as human being to understand what's really behind the curtain and i'm pretty sure NO one know!! in fact we rare all ignorant and i've enough respect for life and for this so call power to not put a name on him (like god, allah, yaveh)
-
Respectfully, your comment is evidence you know God. How you know God is in difference from others.
-
Nicely put, alias.
-
I know you from what you write tho I have no experience with you. I know there is more to know tho I don't know what it is. I have a name to identify you in talking tho that name is not you. You are nameless about everything you are but have a name to know.
-
-
there's definitely a god but
he's either uncaring on not sentient (e.g. the universe itself may be god)-
hi lamenews
why would you say he is uncaring?
-
-
No...-
Oops. Wrong spot. ^^;
-
-
I'd like to think there is a God. Does it sums up to believing? Hmm.... But when I see the many bad things that occured in the world, it's hard sometimes. If there is a God why he let somethings happen.
Like this baby miracletina I wrote here painz-celebratinglife.blogspot.com/2007/12/baby-miracletina.html
it's really unfair sometimes when he make a baby like this and yet make a person like paris hilton.-
The jury's still out on Hilton.
-
Why does God let bad things happen?
I struggled with this one for a while. The simple answer can be summed up in two words. Free will.
God wants us to do what's right, but to make it meaningful He lets us choose whether to do what's right or to do what's wrong. Also, He put in consequences for actions. If I were to punch you in the nose but God made it so that no damage was done, would it matter if I had chosen to punch you or not?
As for bad things that have nothing to do with personal choices (like hurricanes and birth defects), those are the result in living in a fallen world. The whole Adam and Eve mess.
It's also a great opportunity to exercise charity and compassion, not to mention all the other virtues. Disasters can bring out the best in people as those not directly affect come to the aid of the suffering. Learning to live with a disability can also make the affected person stronger. Maybe not physically, but as a person. You can either fall into self-pity, or you can learn from your limitations and become a kinder, more giving person than you might have been otherwise.
As for those who die... Their loss can help their loved ones draw closer to each other and reach out to others in similar situations. How many charities and research funds have been started because of the personal tragedies of a few individuals? -
Brigid's comment caused me to recall something. When I was a student at faculty, I frequently visited a state facility for the mentally retarded. Interestingly, there were a few others there that had other handicaps.
One was a young woman of 18. She had severe cerebral palsy.
With all my frequent visits, it would be a while before I ever got to meet her. One day I was invited to meet her with some staff.
She was percipient and mentally sharp. Someone asked her what she thought of her condition. A smile grew on her face and very slowly the young woman explained that it was funny to her how people behaved poorly and were so miserable in themselves. She knew how bad her condition was but was totally happy and free inside. She had God, while others were far away from Him or forgot Him altogether.
Each one of us is like a little kingdom sitting as a king or queen on a thrown. We can wage war on other kingdoms, or be at peace with them. We can rule alone, or share the thrown with another. Some will share the thrown with God, and some will have God the only ruler. -
aliasinkhorn:
Am I'm sure that girl's answer had nothing to do with possibility that her parents had probably been spoon feeding her about her special connection with God from the time she was young in an effort to make themselves feel better about her condition, no?
Kind of like how people will tell themselves that a child was so very special that God called him/her home early to be with him in heaven in order to try and deal with the unfathomably painful situation of a child dying so very young. -
Antibarbie, Do you write fiction? Because these are very good questions for a short story. To stimulate the imagination, that is. Regarding the young lady, there's more to the story, and none of it anyone could anticipate. Reality is often like this.
And I have other stories, all true, all first hand, and all known by others, too.
-
-
personall this god question is rather amusing because you can't base the facts the god is the mother of all creation.
-
Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of life and the greater antiquity of the Earth, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue. Those with the power to elect presidents and congressmen—and many who themselves get elected—believe that dinosaurs lived two by two upon Noah's Ark, that light from distant galaxies was created en route to the Earth and that the first members of our species were fashioned out of dirt and divine breath, in a garden with a talking snake, by the hand of an invisible God.
-
-
all these god thing is a simplistic way of thinking, probably something somewhere exist..who know maybe we are a laboratory and alien watching us and those alien are in fact GOD?? who know maybe the spaghetti monster with his angelic meat ball are real!! but i don't want to put my life into a religious way of thinking i don,t wanna put my life in the hand of a so called god, i don't have my life and my moral base on a book write by people 2000 years ago..
for me morality is not difficult : i don't do think to people that i don't want them doing to me.. -
in fact religion is a complete illusion. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are pointless. We should eliminate God from our society because God is meaningless. Belief in God is nothing but a silly superstition, and this superstition leads a significant portion of the population to be delusional.
-
The delusion is that there is not God. Religion moves beyond delusion.
Each in religion moves at a different pace. The attainment is reality as it is, and knowing God unmediated.
Delusion is a matter of the mind, its master the ego. Its a troubled master.
For some, they live in the intellect, sitting uncomfortably on a fence of contractions. For others, they live in wisdom, laying comfortably in a hammock of paradox.
To go beyond the senses, needs and pleasures, achieves an intimacy with reality an its Originator - to know without knowing, to feel without feeling, all without effort, in union with God. -
i hear contractions are Very uncomfortable... kinda like passing a kidney stone... or bad cramps
-
There's a very interesting book called Case For A Creator. You might try reading it sometime.
-
-
GOD IS. Yesterday. Today. Tomorrow. There is no convincing in love. Either you love or don't, either you know or don't. Anything else is a waste of YOUR time. GOD IS.
www.lovebabz.blogspot.com-
Jesus was not immaculately conceived; he is the product of a virgin being got with child by the Holy Spirit. It was decided by the Roman church in the 19th century that there had to be a ruling on what happened to Mary. And since the wages of sin is death, since she's known to have died, she had to be assumed into Heaven. That's the doctrine of assumption. She couldn't die, nor was she elevated into Heaven like Jesus, but she was assumed into Heaven. And because she was sinless, her own conception, though not of a virgin, was to be described as immaculate. It's completely different from the virgin birth. This guy has gone through his entire life as a devout Catholic, believing that every time he said he was in favor of the virgin birth, or believed in it, he was believing in the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. Ludicrous position. Because if you have a virgin for a mother, it doesn't prove anything about your doctrines. You could be born of a virgin and be a satanic imp, easily. Or a speaker of bullshit. You could be resurrected and be a speaker of bullshit or a satanic imp. None of these things prove anything. There could be an afterlife and no God; there could be a God and no afterlife. This is all cobbled together, obviously, by humans. One definite way to prove that we are half a chromosome away from being chimpanzees is to look at our religious practices.
-
-
yes there is GOD -
I believe a supreme being (God) created the world and all in it. The complexity of it all can't just happen by chance.-
I was at University several years ago where the editor of the British Medical Journal gave a presentation. It was remarkably honest, and did an excellent and honest job of addressing issues of research, etc.
What I walked away with is the knowledge that we live, yet in living have so little knowledge about how we function in all our minutiae. Amazing. It was a colossal effort to send a man to the moon based on known physics and mechanics, then hear some humans speak as those there was no Intelligence to make life and everything seen and unseen with considerably greater complexity and complication. :-)
I gave a presentation over a year ago on stress and its reduction. Before the first break I had collegiate elite saying they never knew how many things occurred in the initial stages - just to become stressed!
If we took at all the possible connections in the brain, their number would be greater than all the stars believed to exist. That's just the brain.
The locomotion of life is amazing also, with a physics that human intelligence would have never arrived at.
Everything is not a result of mathematics (which is a descriptor) and statistical probability (which must waive innumerable (and perhaps infinite) variables) to have arrived at numberless functional ('perfect') results, also. Such notions are hubris and conceit. :-) -
EDIT: (I didn't finish rewrite before SUBMIT closed :-)
Everything is not a result of mathematics (which is a descriptor) and statistical probability (which cannot address innumerable (and perhaps infinite) variables) to arrive at numberless functional ('perfect') results. Such notions are hubris and conceit. :-) -
aliasinkhorn:
I'm going to say this just once more in hopes that it will get through. Your personal truth is your own, not everyone's. It's based on your own experiences and viewpoints and therefore are no more absolute truth or factual than other peoples. I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from subtle attacks on those who don't share your sentiments such as insinuating that Atheists are irrational, unintelligent and delusional. -
antibarbie, My words stand. Interpretations are others'. If there is intent to understand, I will be asked.
-
-
There is not "a" God. There IS God. Why do I believe? Not just because it was how I was raised? I believe because along my journey with God (which I admit has not always been perfect) I have seen the miracles, I have felt his presence in my life. I have seen things work out for me when I didn't see a way out.
I've stood in churches where you could not deny the power of his presence, heard the cracking bones of someone's crooked arm being straightened. I've known people with cancer who stand now without a trace of it.
I don't think there is God. I know there is God.-
Yes! God performs miracles today... The presence of God can fill a room and transport one to new realms. It is profound, is it not? Experiencing God is the changer. It is not about legalism, going to church, or performance - It is all about experiencing God.
I have had profound experiences in the spiritual realm that can't be explained in the natural.
There are many that sit in church pews yet have no knowledge of God. They deceive others by paying lip service but in their hearts they believe something else. They are called hypocrites. It is these that bring destruction to the name of Jesus. Yet, despite the mockery, His truth and message remain. He is the way, the truth and the life, whether or not one believes. His word can stand under scrutiny and careful analysis. Questioning the validity of scriptures is good and, for some, imperative.
God can be experienced.
-
-
# There is no evidence that confirms that Jesus Christ did exist. (The
intention of this argument is not to argue from absence, but rather to
simply show that the possibilities are open to further explanation. In
addition, yes, this absence of information is also relevant and does
produce an argument from absence, but this absence cannot by itself be
evidence that some "Jesus" did not exist.)
# Both the pre-Gospel view of Jesus Christ and the Gospel story of
Jesus Christ have precedents in earlier Jewish literature and beliefs.
(This is a point that is itself a part of Christian belief.)
# The details of the life of Jesus as relayed in the Gospels can be
accounted for via existing literature and beliefs, i.e. sources other
than someone's real life. (This again is largely in line with Christian
beliefs and can be shown to be true beyond question.)
# The earliest writings about Jesus that we have are incompatible with
the existence of a historical figure. (This is a contentious claim, and
one that draws the most scrutiny)
# There are theological reasons that explain how a non-historical
Jesus Christ would have been historicized, these being developments
around the eucharist ritual and a belief that real suffering and a real
blood sacrifice were needed create a "new covenant" or to take away
sins. (This again makes use of the Christian understanding of the Jesus
story)
# There was widespread disagreement as to the nature and existence of
Jesus from the time of the writing of the Gospels. (I contend that we
have no evidence of disagreement about the nature of Jesus before the
Gospels because A. the movement was so small and B. there was no view of
Jesus as a historical figure in the first place)
# The earliest defenders of an earthly flesh and blood historical Jesus came along in
the 2nd century, and even at that time none of them were able to provide
proof for the existence of Jesus, instead they relied on theological
reasoning and scriptures to support their claims, eventually winning out
through political force not the validity of their claims.
# That Jesus did not exist, but rather developed from stories and
beliefs, is the best explanation for these points and many other details
of the Jesus story and early Christian history. -
If there really was an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent God, why would he even care if we worshipped him? (And why would he need so damned much money?)
If God already knows what we are thinking, why do we bother to pray or even think about praying?
If God was actually omnipotent, wouldn't he simply eliminate sin, poverty, disease and politics?
If God was truly omnibenevolent, wouldn't he invite everyone to heaven and help them get there?
If God created the heavens and the earth, why are they so screwed up?
If there is a God that made everything, he can do anything, change anything, eliminate anything, fix anything.
If the Bible is actually God's word, why is it so badly written, contradictory, full of sex and violence and why has he not updated it in centuries?
If God really loved us, why would he send his son to earth to be murdered and then order us to wear a crucifix to honor him? And what about his other children? And his wife? Why do we know nothing about them?
And, finally, if God is really perfect, smart and able to do absolutely anything, why did he confide in the late Jerry Falwell?-
@KathrynCleve, you are fierce crusader. The beliefs you attack are benign. They have relevance to the lives they gird up, just as your personal beliefs do. Some people live their beliefs better than others. The Old Testament is a history of this fact about people, people like you and I, and that book is the only honest self-telling chronicle about a people anywhere on earth. Yet belief in goodness has never flagged in any epoch, even in the most horrendous ones, and its requirement is continual no matter what other beliefs are held.
-
Kathrine Cleve, you are the sole voice of reason here.
A hundred years from now historians will say "they believed in WHAT? How could the live by ancient rules written down by shepherds?"
-
-
Deja Vu!
As for me, YES, I do believe, Virginia. -
the believe that some cosmic Jewish zombie (living dead) can make you live forever is you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib and hungry woman was convince by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree
make perfect sens thats sure...
for me that's absolutely a non-sens, i'm a more earthly guy and have a sens of reality i'm not so much into magical thinking
so if i add to believe into weird stuff the 2001 space odyssey monolith have more sens to me : where is our consciousness coming from? when this intelligence have appear and where it come from? so science tell us we are all brother and come all form the same seed/man so why? where is this first human was coming from? so yeas there is a miracle that have happen somewhere in our past but it ,s still a mystery to us and we have to continue the research to find where we are coming from!-
Since you put it that way...I'm not much a believer myself. I used to go to church as a kid. The figurative "straw that broke the camel's back" for me was Sunday school. Here we are, a bunch of kids, listening to a boring adult lecture about something. There was a girl in the class that put her head on the table. Next thing I know, this guy teaching the class decides that she was sleeping (which she wasn't) and kicks her out of class. Time for the irony. The class was about forgiveness. -
religion all of 'em is loaded of hypocrisy and contrariety
-
I believe the word you're looking for is contrafibulations.
-
-
what contrafibulations mean?
-
Wow. This has gotten mean.
I could go on an apologetics lecture to set straight the various and sundry errors in the anti-Christian rants, but would it really make a difference? Perhaps, but not to the people so dead set on believing that a higher power is utterly and totally impossible.
It's depressing.-
Don't be depressed, Brigid :-) When I found a gold stone in the mountains, I was scorned. When I showed it, I was ridiculed. And when it was assayed, I suddenly had many friends.
-
i dont say that higher power is impossible, i'm trying to explain that no man is higher than another and i don't think any human ever have any special contact with god or higher power here is the difference.
that a higher power exist is highly possible, but this is not to a priest,imam or a pope to tell me on how to act in my life those guy haven't privileges contact with any entity and for me all those man are pure liar and opportunists who use weak person for their own goal and their need of power. -
@ Ttiger, I think I understand you, but want to be sure. It appears you are looking at this on a horizontal plain, where everyone stands equal, and is equal, and that there is no vertical in this picture. Do I understand your thought correctly?
And, still, so I am sure I understand, are you saying there is a higher power, but no one has had contact with this higher power?
-
-
exactly, i mean no human had any privilege contact with this higher power nor Jesus, Moses, Mohamed and others. i don't believe in prophets or in book write 2000 years ago, but for sure we are all in the matrix their is something somewhere pulling the string and laughing at us:)
-
Some say God has a sense of humor :-) A great Christian several hundred years ago said, God hides but we hear him hiccup :-) Some have even said Jesus had a sense of humor, too. I think he laughed as well as wept. Yet, it makes sense that the view goes up and down just as it goes right and left. Have you ever made something and touched it? That's contact. And, so, because God made us, and made this thing we call consciousness (because that is what the Matrix is), it can be touched by God, too, anyway He wants - with or without strings :-).
-
-
Yes, but not by traditional means.
Check out God's Debris by Scott Adams if you want an explanation.-
This is for whom?
-
Too curious, I searched quickly for a description of the book. Here's one from wikipedia:
'This character, the Avatar, defines God as primordial matter (like quarks and leptons) and the law of probability. He offers recommendations on everything from an alternative theory for planetary motion to successful recipes for relationships under his system. He proposes that God is currently reassembling himself through the ongoing formation of a collective intelligence in the form of the human race, modern examples of which include the development of the Internet.'
'However, in the introduction, Adams describes God's Debris as a thought experiment, challenging readers to differentiate its scientifically accepted theories from "creative baloney designed to sound true," and to "Try to figure out what's wrong with the simplest explanation."'
-
-
There was a man from Spain a long time ago that transcended life and convinced the most unlikely people there is God.
It is said he was very devout, simple in lifestyle, and was seen levitating in prayer. He wrote how to approach and be with God. His work is nearly empty of doctrine, just simple instruction.
Here's a small crumb from the bread of his writings.
'The soul that is attached to anything, however much good there may be in it, will not arrive at the liberty of divine union. For whether it be a strong wire rope or a slender and delicate thread that holds the bird, it matters not, if it really holds it fast; for, until the cord be broken, the bird cannot fly. So the soul, held by the bonds of human affections, however slight they may be, cannot, while they last, make its way to God.' -
Why I believe in God:
I was introduced to God personally at age 4. I know, that may seem strange to those who don't know that God actively pursues relationship and connection with His Creatures!
My mother was not a Christian, but she encountered God when I was 1 and 1/2 years old. She led me in a prayer "inviting Jesus into my heart" when I was 4. There has been interaction between the Creator and myself ever since.
When I got to high school my friends were the "intellectual type." They questioned my faith intensely. "Why not Buddha or any of the countless other God's?" they said. "How do you know the Bible is True, how do you really know about Jesus? Whey would God send everyone other than Christians to hell?"
This questioning sent me on a journey of personal crisis. I found within myself a longing for truth. My mother believing something wasn't good enough. What the rest of my culture said wasn't good enough. What the whole world said wasn't good enough. I didn't want anybodies opinion, I wanted to know what was true.
I used to sit in an old Blue Ford Pickup Truck out in a parking lot and demand that God show Himself to me in person. I cried out. I cried. I sought. I longed. I yearned. I felt lost. Wasn't there an answer?
One day I was sharing my doubts with a friend and mentor as we camped in the woods of Northern Michigan. He introduced a radical idea to me. I asked him "why should I believe in the Bible and Christianity?" He told me "because of the evidence!" Evidence? I was shocked. Is there evidence?
This led me on another path where I discovered that many people were going around saying "How do you know your religion is true and not somebody else's" and "the Bible is full of errors and no different from other religion's holy books", but few had actually investigated anything at all. They were usually repeating their college professors.
I read Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell; I read The Resurrection Factor by Josh McDowell; I read Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?: The Resurrection Debate by Gary R. Habermas and Antony G. N. Flew (which is a debate between an atheist and a Resurrection Advocate). These are dangerously persuasive books.
I read He is There and He is not Silent by Francis Schaeffer and learned about Epistemology and Reason in discovering God.
The case was launched to win my mind. I started to see that Christianity was reasonable. It was reasonable to believe in the literal life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is possible to reasonably believe in God. It is not a matter of "blind faith." God is reasonable. There is historical evidence.
This pursuit was good for me, and I would recommend it, but it was not enough. Something deep inside me needed MORE! I used to tell my friends that I was 99.999999% convinced about Christianity, Jesus, the Resurrection, and the Bible and I was placing all of my chips on that spot. What did I have to lose?
My soul was still starving. My quest continued.
"God, I want to see you!"
Then it started to happen. I began to encounter God! Internally, I started to know Him!
I remember standing in front of a crowded room, staring up at the ceiling, looking into the eyes of God and beginning to fall in love with Him! (not a literal vision, but an internal "revelation.")
This went way beyond a "religious experience." It was not always emotional.
For three years I immersed in God, the Bible, and worship, falling more and more in Love with my Creator.
In the midst of that 3 years I had a moment of revelation. I was at a university and I met two students who began to launch at me the same questions my friends had asked me in High School. They kept mentioning their professor.
I found myself arguing rather fluently the Case for God and for Jesus Christ. They grew a bit timid. I was shocked. Then they pulled out their Big Bomb. "You need to talk to our professor." Out of my mouth came something like this: "Your professor is probably smarter than me, he probably is a better debater than me, he may know more information than me; but he would have more luck proving to me that you don't exist than that God doesn't. You could be a hallucination, but I know God!" They stood there and looked at me with some pretty silly grins. I don't think they knew what to do with that. I was never once mean or angry with them.
I am not talking about an emotional experience, I am talking about an internal Revelation and Knowing. I have been unable to doubt the existence of God in the 15ish years that have followed! That is right, I said unable.
I personally believe that everyone has a drop of this "knowing" inside them. Everyone knows God is there. I know some will take issue with that, and I respect that they disagree. But I also submit that it is within us all.
I personally believe that when we all face the judgment on Judgment Day we will realize that God is and always has been Plain and Obvious to all, both in our Hearts and in Creation.
I believe in God because it is reasonable to do so. I believe in God because of the historical testimonial evidence of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in God because of Internal Revelation and Knowing (also known as the Testimony of the Holy Spirit).
God is there. He is not silent. Jesus literally walked the earth. He was 100% human and 100% Creator God. He literally died to pay for every drop of sin and evil in each individual past, present and future. He literally, historically came back to life, shattering the power of death for all time. He is literally going to return to earth to judge the living and the dead. There is literally grace and forgiveness being offered to all. There is literally and accounting to God after death and an Eternal Judgment for all who refuse the Grace that is offered.
I believe it. I have bought it all hook, line and sinker. Jesus is not a crutch for me, He is the stretcher that carried me out of the Grave and into New Life.
I am not threatened by those who say they don't believe, although I think they are missing out.
Jesus (Yeshua!) is real and knowable! He is the living representation of God and I believe in Him and love Him and am delighted to be considered a "Fool for Christ."
:-)
ThirstyJon
freedomthirst.com
P.S. You can watch Gary Habermas debate Anthony Flew here:
freedomthirst.com/2008/01/08/some-of-why-i-believe-in-god/-
I am pleased to read your story, and especially your sentence 'he would have more luck proving to me that you don't exist than that God doesn't'.
-
I'm sorry but I cannot let you lie without reproach.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus "walked the earth."
There is no evidence that confirms that Jesus Christ did exist.
Both the pre-Gospel view of Jesus Christ and the Gospel story of
Jesus Christ have precedents in earlier Jewish literature and beliefs.
The details of the life of Jesus as relayed in the Gospels can be
accounted for via existing literature and beliefs, i.e. sources other
than someone's real life.
The earliest writings about Jesus that we have are incompatible with
the existence of a historical figure.
There are theological reasons that explain how a non-historical
Jesus Christ would have been historicized, these being developments
around the eucharist ritual and a belief that real suffering and a real
blood sacrifice were needed create a "new covenant" or to take away
sins.
There was widespread disagreement as to the nature and existence of
Jesus from the time of the writing of the Gospels. (I contend that we
have no evidence of disagreement about the nature of Jesus before the
Gospels because A. the movement was so small and B. there was no view of
Jesus as a historical figure in the first place)
The earliest defenders of an earthly flesh and blood historical Jesus came along in the 2nd century, and even at that time none of them were able to provide proof for the existence of Jesus, instead they relied on theological
reasoning and scriptures to support their claims, eventually winning out
through political force, not the validity of their claims.
That Jesus did not exist, but rather developed from stories and beliefs, is the best explanation for these points and many other details of the Jesus story and early Christian history. -
So, Romans looking to extinguish the family line Jesus was from didn't happen, nor Diocletian's order to look for his extended family, that some of the first defenders of Jerusalem in their revolt from Rome where Christians, that James the Just, revered and respected as a nazir across all spectra in Judea, was first bishop of the church following Jesus, did not happen? There are in deed holes in the history you cite. You know the history of this time intimately and have a sound fundament in historiography? :-)
-
@ThirstyJohn:
Thanks for sharing your faith in Jesus and your conversion. During college, I read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell (both volumes), "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis, and other apologetics before making a cognitive decision to follow Christ. It was after my mind was appeased with such knowledge that I experienced profound internal changes. I now have an experience and knowledge of the Holy Spirit that is so awesome and satisfying.
www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict/dp/0785243038
Yes, we are "fools for Christ's sake" and I am thankful to be His own. -
I was invited this afternoon, in rude, crude and unprintable terms I would never dream of repeating, in ten identical Emails from the same alleged person to "SHUT UP ABOUT GOD AND JESIS(sic)!" So, I will.
In conclusion I'd like to share this:
Jesus was not immaculately conceived; he is the product of a virgin being got with child by the Holy Spirit. It was decided by the Roman church in the 19th century that there had to be a ruling on what happened to Mary. And since the wages of sin is death, since she's known to have died, she had to be assumed into Heaven. That's the doctrine of assumption. She couldn't die, nor was she elevated into Heaven like Jesus, but she was assumed into Heaven. And because she was sinless, her own conception, though not of a virgin, was to be described as immaculate. It's completely different from the virgin birth. Some people go through their entire life as a devout Catholic, believing in the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. Ludicrous position. Because if you have a virgin for a mother, it doesn't prove anything about your doctrines. You could be born of a virgin and be a satanic imp, easily. Or a speaker of bullshit. You could be resurrected and be a speaker of bullshit or a satanic imp. None of these things prove anything. There could be an afterlife and no God; there could be a God and no afterlife. This was all cobbled together, obviously, by humans.
Religion says follow my rules or you will suffer terrible pain for all eternity! Is that free will? The option is live in paradise or live in hell! Is that not being subjected to compulsion? That proposition is absolutely non-sensical. The Clergy, who have sold that along with all the smoke and mirrors, are terrific salesmen, either that or those that parrot it are gullible unthinking individuals. Why in this age of science, when men can go to the moon and back, are such bronze-aged myths and superstitions still believed?
The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence. If a person would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he or she would be a criminal. If the person would follow strictly the teachings of the New Testament, he or she would be insane. The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence. Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you're told. Religion is doing what you're told, no matter what is right.
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religions in it. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain the joy of freedom. I was free! Free to think, to express my thoughts, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds and all the so-called ‘inspired’ books that savages have produced, free from popes and priests, free from sanctified mistakes and holy lies, free from the fear of eternal pain, free from devils, ghosts and gods. Because I now live a rational life, there are no prohibited places in all the realms of thought, no blindly following another’s steps, no need to bow, or kneel, or cringe, or crawl, or to utter words I do not believe.
This I DO believe: That the free, exploring mind of the individual human is the most valuable thing in the world.
And this I would fight for: the freedom of the mind to take any direction it wishes, undirected.
And this I must fight against: any idea, religion, or government which limits or destroys the individual. Organized religion is a sham and a crutch
for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers.
I reject it and all the sadness and pain it has inflicted on the world.
I reject God, Satan, Jesus and all the other fictional characters created to keep the sheep from thinking for themselves.
Thank you and good night.
Kathryn Cleve. -
Kathryn...just because you can't see Jesus doesn't mean he's not there -
KathrynCleve said:
- I'm sorry but I cannot let you lie without reproach.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus "walked the earth."
There is no evidence that confirms that Jesus Christ did exist.
Both the pre-Gospel view of Jesus Christ and the Gospel story of
Jesus Christ have precedents in earlier Jewish literature and beliefs.
Wow. Quite a statement. I would refer you again to the books referred to in my previous statement. Tons of evidence. Lots of good reasons. Belief in Jesus is quite "reasonable." You can disagree with the evidence, but to say there isn't any is incorrect.
And writings in earlier Jewish texts that predicted the life of Jesus is evidence for the Bible and Christianity, not against.
:-)
ThirstyJon
freedomthirst.com - I'm sorry but I cannot let you lie without reproach.
-
-
hi,
you may want to check it up at this URL for better understanding:
www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
personally i do,
cheers.. -
Because of some comments in this thread touching on science in some way or another, I have been kicking back and forth the idea to add a link for any predisposed to an unusually different approach to the subject. Its an earnestly personal story that fuses science to it, yet draws on various number of sources.
Theory of Religion: The Formalized Integration of Science and Religion. world.std.com/~awolpert
Knowing God and experiences of the celestial go back to earliest childhood. I need no science, and what I have been given - shared I think by other's in this thread - makes science look ignorant.-
Statements like that that show just how dangerous and over the top the fundamental religious mindset is. Thank you for reaffirming why I, like so many had such a hard time finding religion palatable in the first place.
-
I have found castor oil unpalatable, but find it good.
In every place, in any epoch, there have been those who have been ignored, mocked, or scorned for speaking about and living the results of exquisitely precious intimacies transcending material life. And there have been many more moved to change because of these.
There has been no assault on those who don't accept these revelatory and transforming experiences, but there is assault by those who don't.
Yet, your comment is appreciated. Wisdom finds itself best in confrontation. -
aliasinkhorn:
You have insulted several times yourself without having the testicular fortitude to admit to it once it was brought to your attention. Aside from that, I need to expand on this statement:
Knowing God and experiences of the celestial go back to earliest childhood. I need no science, and what I have been given - shared I think by other's in this thread - makes science look ignorant.
You use science on a daily basis, after all you are on your computer aren't you? I'm sure you reap the benefits of modern medicine, plastic, household appliances and cars. Science is good enough for that but the second they try and gain a better understanding of the universe using critical thought and logic instead of mysticism, you denounce and ridicule it.
So science is great as long as it does nothing that touches upon or upsets your personal belief system. -
It might be appropriate if not wise to reread comments with an orientation of the null hypothesis in mind.
It has always been interesting to me that there are those who unabashedly impute or impose a meaning not resident in words, that understanding meaning and intent ignored wholesale, and a demand for a capitulation in civil argument of experiences that would suborn the writer or speaker.
As for the robust language you use, it is highly creative. It reminds me of our 6th grade schoolyard bully. I'm not saying you are a bully. Yet the topic would be excellent for a new thread. What do you think? -
My robust language? Please allow me to explain. I don't mince words. I don't hide behind veiled insults, pseudo intellectualism, circular logic or twenty dollar college words. I should probably stay off this thread. It's starting to take up too much of my time and between two young kids, a blog and a job I don't have much time to spare.
It's been fun debating. Have a good one. -
Science proves everything it believes.
Religion believes without any proof whatsoever.
If we inserted the words Peter Pan in place of God, everyone would see how absurd it all is.
-
-
The universe is far more mysterious, beautiful, and powerful than the human mind is currently capable of understanding. I don't need anything more than that to be in awe of existence and find value in my short life. To assume that we can understand everything and answer every question about ourselves and the universe is arrogant.
Those who need gods to feel awe while feeling threatened by nature and science are living with their eyes closed.-
Some like to dine out and be served, well removed from kitchen and chef. There is a need to feel a sense of privilege. Others like to stay home and eat in the kitchen. There is a desire to feel a sense of gratitude and enjoyment with the cook.
Superiority gratuitously maligns the humble. And that is all it ever gives. -
What's that now? Who's cooking what for who?
-
-
No.
And I don't feel the need to explain it. -
Yes. Without a doubt, God exists.-
Actually, there are whole books written about intelligent people who doubt the existence of God.
-
-
If there is no God, how does the next Kleenex pop up?-
Actually, I met the man who made that possible, an engineer named Howard Zerick.
-
-
who made and design the sky, the moon and the universe?
definitely, NOT human beings, coz human beings are still even TRYING to know and understand more about the things on earth like waves, snow, air, tornados, volcanos, hurricane, nature, animals, humans, etc!-
Why is it necessary for you to believe some ONE created the earth? Can you not live with the facts? Evolution is the reason everything exists and there is absolute proof of this.
-
Intelligent design makes more sense then a creator, imo. It has been proven to be actually plausible while the Creation theory always winds up back at the question who created the creator? We know that evolution itself really does exist. We have seen it in action.
-
Oops. I did not mean intelligent design. I meant natural selection. My apologies.
-
Evolution is a process, not an originator. What made the clay is not the same as continually shaping it.
-
"Evolution is the reason everything exists and there is absolute proof of this."
Really? When I have participated in the evolution vs. creation debate I often see a lecture about "there isn't proof for anything, just 'evidence'." You are the first person I have heard assert that "evolution" is the "reason" everything exists.
You, of course, get to choose whether or not you want to believe in God. What you or I believe about God has no bearing about whether or not He exists though. There is a reason He identified Himself as "I Am."
God said in the Bible: "If you seek Me you will find Me if you search for Me with all of your heart." He is knowable. He wants to reveal Himself. "The Heavens declare the Glory of God and the Firmament shows His handiwork." All of the Universe reveals God, and His Spirit "proves" His existence by testifying to Himself in the heart of every person.
He is even testifying of Himself to Atheists.
God Loves You and there is nothing you can do about it!
:-)
ThirstyJon
freedomthirst.com
-
-
jaze that's where you worng people of such hierachy know alot about evolutipn and natural disaster's but dont want the public to know and to be able to keep us under control
-
who is keeping you under control? and how are they doing this?
-
-
Here's my question--
Where do you believe you will go when you die?-
Ask my religious friend and it's Hell. Ask my yoga teacher and it's here. Ask me and I'll tell you once I get there. It's a mystery. I'm cool with that. Good question, Hummie. -
Sounds like a good topic for a new thread :-)
-
nowhere death is like pulling the plug off .
close the light the show is finished:-) -
When I die, I go to the same place I was before I was born: nowhere.
-
-
there is no god... if you use religion as a crutch to have good family values and good morals that's fine, i'm not knocking you, just don't expect everyone to believe in "magic"-
For some, discipline is not magic but necessity.
-
Well stated, my friend.
-
You see, many of us maintain good moral judgment without the fear of an alleged God. It is a brave and more intelligent way to live.
-
Christianity is not magic, just the opposite.
-
-
DEFINITELY !!! -
i have a simple explanation about God's existence.. there's always two sides of everything.. short - tall, good - bad, night - day, happy - sad and so on...
Soo.. if there's anyone out there saying GOD is not exist, then GOD is exist
two sides EXIST - NON EXIST. well actually there is the 3rd side of it.. ME (in the middle) perhaps you?-
You must realize how flawed that statement is. If I dream it up and say it doesn't exist, it must in fact exist? How about if I say a three headed talking pygmy turtle with wings does not exist in my belly button. Should I go look for it? Perhaps I should keep an eye out for the Toothfairy and Easter Bunny while I am at it because according to you, those should be real as well.
-
In some oblique way this all reminds me of a matter of existential paradox that doesn't exclude a third element. In fact it can't. Otherwise it couldn't be a paradox resulting from an incomplete comprehension.
On the other hand, if viewed as polarities, they are part of a plane or continuum. They are polarities to us and our experiential taxonomy, but not in themselves.
Imagination is a subjective phenomenon addressing possibilities that can be manifested using material and dynamic elements of existence.
Explanations and descriptions are usually aided by comparison or similarity or metaphor. Language in itself is not reality. It is a conveyor of 'something' to someone or others.
Genopianist54 did this: she gave an example from any number through words to aid in understanding her knowledge or belief. She did well; better than may be apparent. What she did not do was ridicule another. -
Soo.. if there's anyone out there saying GOD is not exist, then GOD is exist
two sides EXIST - NON EXIST.
Sorry Aliasinkhorn but if you remove the word GOD and replace it with any other fictional character, her hypothesis remains intact and therefore what I wrote is accurate. As far as ridiculing people. I was rather snarky in my reply but I never personally attacked her unlike if I were to say for example that if one is truly rational, truly intelligent, her hypothesis will not make sense. If one is stunt-clever, it will. -
You put me in a box I don't fit. But it is a pleasure to know I'm worth the attempt. Thank you :-)
-
-
There is no proving guarantee for this.
The answer is left on you to believe or not to believe His existence.-
Some know easily, many more know because of quest. If there's an assumption that there is no God, there is no quest or knowing. On the other hand, there are those with such assumptions that have been surprised.
-
Bottom line: those too frightened to live life on its own terms like to believe in a supernatural entity of their own design.
The more intelligent people know that the world is what it is with no help from a mythical "god" and his totally-contrived "son." -
O, I am so reluctant to add this, but do so because I am, as you suggest in your comment, not intelligent at all, so this can be accepted as proof:
He that overcomes will inherit all things and I will be his God and he will be my son. (rev 21.7) -
It is common obscuration to quote the Bible when cornered but that is perhaps not the optimum defense. Remember, the Bible was written by illiterate men thousands of years ago.
I know that some Christians believe the Bible is "divinely inspired, infallible, entirely trustworthy and the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct."
Okay. That's just silly. If a divine God had inspired the so-called "Holy Scriptures" they would be perfect, not contradictory, outdated and obviously the product of human authors. To trust this dusty old book as "entirely trustworthy" and "the supreme authority" in "all matters of faith and conduct," is so incredibly stupid as to be childish. That's like worshiping a 1902 Sears catalog because someone told you it's the Word of God.
If God did exist and he had written a book, I think it would have been How To Cure Cancer, not Don't Covet Your Neighbor's Ox. -
KathrynCleve said:
- "Bottom line: those too frightened to live life on its own terms like to believe in a supernatural entity of their own design.
The more intelligent people know that the world is what it is with no help from a mythical 'god' and his totally-contrived 'son.'"
Hmmmmm. Saying those things won't cause God to cease to exist. He still is and He is still Good.
And He still Loves You and there is still nothing you can do about it.
:-)
ThirstyJon - "Bottom line: those too frightened to live life on its own terms like to believe in a supernatural entity of their own design.
-
@ KathrynCleve, it is very interesting to observe you have a conversation .. with someone .. but you sound so pedantic & rehearsed. And academic opinion.
-
By academic, you mean the words were too big? I think she nailed it. Besides, it's weak to quote the Bible in defense of God and the Bible. That would be like me quoting myself to prove that I am right.
-
@KathrynCleve: Having visited your blog, I have a better perspective of your position and the reasons why you are rejecting Jesus.
The love of God is unchanging, not based upon what we do or what we don't do. We have free will and choose to follow or not follow. We are solely responsible for making a decision to abide in Him.
His love for all is unconditional...
-
-
God Exist!!!... No Debate-
Jon Stewart is God. No one can argue that.
-
Actually KathrynCleve your answers have contradictions :-) And they are so compact that they are successfully blind to other things. It's like living in a house with all the window shades pulled down but one and saying, 'This is the only view there is even with all your shades are up next door'. :-)
-
Point out my contradictions. I would be interested in what they are.
In the meantime, may I point out the 173 contradictions in the Bible? -
KathrynCleve, if you read your posts above you'll them both.
-
-
Your answer is here:
secretmonologues.blogspot.com/2007/12/about-gods-existence.html-
-
The ontological question is why do some beings exist to hate God so well? Or is it perfectly? :-)
-
You cannot hate someone or something that does not exist. I don't hate God.
I don't hate Christians either, but I certainly do hate what their religion has done and is doing to make lives miserable the world over. -
I respectfully disagree with your rationale.
-
-
I posted this in one of our similar threads. I'm a believer due to personal experiences that I won't share here (they are flame material for those with an axe to grind).
Apart from that, while I can't offer any "proof" of god, I can't find any "proof" of his non-existence either.
I keep going back to the moment just before the "big-bang", which supposedly begot the universe. From my understanding, there was all sorts of matter and proto-matter existing in a super heated and super condensed state that suddenly exploded outward, fueling the rapid expansion of the universe we still see today. I'm right on board with all of that - but how did that original super condensed matter that thus exploded get there? What (or perhaps "who") begot that? The "big bang" only explains what happened after that instant in space-time, and offers no plausible explanation for the origins of anything.
We have no answer for such questions. And to those that agrue that only scientific methods can reveal truths, I ask how that can be when the "laws" of physics we have already witnessed are not "always" laws (which is the reason for "quantum-physics", yes?). So we create quantum physics to help explain the situations when the supposed "laws" of physics don't seem to apply.
Of course, I respect others that disagree. In the spirit of Voltaire (purportedly at least), "I may disagree with what you say but shall defend to the death your right to say it."
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if this outrages or offends anyone, they are just my personal beliefs and I only ask that you accept me for who I am, as I shall accept you for who you are without passing "judgement" just because we may happen to disagree on a deeply personal issue.
Seems fair, right?-
^_^ Very well said. *applause*
I can't remember who said it, but someone said something along these lines:
You can believe in God or you can not believe in God.
If you believe in God and He doesn't actually exist, then you're just dead and it doesn't matter. Or He does exist and you get to go to Heaven.
If you don't believe in God and doesn't exist, then you're just dead. Or He does exist and you're screwed.
Personally, I'll stick with believing in God. -
You can't prove that something doesn't exist. Can you prove that there isn't a tea pot floating in space somewhere in the universe? No, you can't.
-
@kdawg68
Yes, indeed, "faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen"... The miracle of faith is that it is transformational and not explainable but experienced.
As CS Lewis said: Jesus Christ of Nazareth was either a liar, a lunatic or the real thing. Read more here:
www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UT... -
Thanks Brigid! I always enjoy reading your take on things.
Global girl - Ah, C.S. Lewis - only one of my favorite authors! Thanks for the link, very intresting indeed. By the way, I kind of liked your old avatar better, but I digress.
Geminito - I can prove certain things don't exist. I understand the philosphical sentiment of your post, but I can prove some things don't exist. For example, would anyone argue with me if I said I could prove that Pappa Smurf is a fictitous character? Probably a bad example, admittedly. It's early in the morning and my brain isn't working properly yet. -
brigid:
What you are referring to is called pascal's wager. The problem with that idea is that we can not will ourselves to believe in something we deeply feel to be false so at best we would just be paying lip service in the hopes it would pay off and would that sort of hedge betting really pacify an omnipotent being?
Aside from that one also would have to wonder which God to believe in. After all, there are many and several are the jealous type. -
Mere Christianity is a 'must read' from what I've heard. Unfortunately, I' haven't gotten around to reading it. ^^; Dad has at least two copies, though, so I should be able to at some point.
Pascal's Wager, got it. Thanks for letting me know what's called!
-
-
I got Richard Dawkins's 'the God Delusion' for Christmas. It tries to answer this question. Only read chapter 1 so far, but it seems awesome.
-
I have read The God Delusion three times and it IS awesome.
I have also read God is Not Great, Letter to a Christian Nation and Atheist Universe. -
I haven't read those, thanks.
What about the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? -
flamingpoodle & KathrynCleve, Mr Dawkins has had a change of heart or there has been a terrible error made by a typesetter. Apparently Mr Dawkins just has a problem with vocabulary on the subject.
-
I'm about half way done with the God Delusion and it's been a really enjoyable read for me. I'm going to look up some of the other books you guys mentioned as well.
-
And and if you guys are interested I just read a very short but interesting piece about free will and perfection:
www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/perfection.htm
It only took me a minute to read but I thought it might be of interest. -
@antibarbie: Wish I had that piece available a few days ago. I'll read that over when I get home from work. Thanks!
-
ghostytwofish:
I forgot to mention that it's from a Biblical standpoint not just in general. -
Well, then Mr Dawkins must have bad luck with typesetters because I have a revised and updated edition of 'God Delusion' and it seems like he changed his heart back again.
-
-
in fact NO ONE can tell if god exist or no! from one side or another it's just speculation, you can tell us us if you believe or not but absolutely no one can tell and be sure if this god exist or not
-
Well, I beg to differ. Certainly anyone can tell you, for sure, whether God exists or not. However, any opinion you get will be based on personal experience.
Since you cannot have another's spiritual perspective, you may or may not take someone else's word for it. Ultimately, it's something each of us must make up their own mind about. -
ttiger, what country do you live in? Tell me about it, please.
-
quebec canada, here we have kick the religion out of our life for a few Decades now!
-
-
i believe that God is not some giant man with a white beard spinning the world like a basketball on his finger tip.
i think of God as more of a force, like gravity. it keeps the world in movement, but doesn't control who lives and who dies. i haven't decided what i believe "controls" that yet, though, if anything. i often where out my own mind trying to think of answers to all of these questions such as, what *is* in control? where did the beginning of EVERYTHING start and HOW? how is it all possible? where does the universe end? is it possible that it may not end, and why can't the human mind picture something like that?
i'm really fascinated by it all.-
excellent explanation of the way i think;-)
-
that view of God is called a Pantheist I believe. A lot of really interesting and intelligent folks have shared the Pantheist POV, including Einstein.
-
-
"God" is just the fluffy teddy bear that you cuddled up to as a baby for comfort. The only difference is that "he" is not real, and the teddy bear is.
-
i think that's beautiful way of wording it
-
ha! indeed. Nice analogy.
-
-
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.
Jesus claimed to be God because He is God. Whether you believe it or not does not change that fact. He died on a cross to pay the penalty for your sin and mine. He is the ONLY way to salvation.
What you believe about Jesus Christ will determine your eternity. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Trust in Him or deny Him the choice is yours. But remember God doesn't send people to hell, people chose hell when they reject the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. He died for you! You may not believe it today but one day you will. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.-
'Because the Bible says so' is hardly a valid reason for.. well, anything.
It is just as valid as 'because the Koran/Talmud/Bhagavad Gita/The Internet says so' -
flamingpoodle, which is it? I mean, which sentence is speaking for you?
-
Remember, you are quoting an illiterate sheepherder who never even MET Jesus Christ.
Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. The Bible condones and even approves of it. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape absolutely amazes me.
(From Chapter 21 of Judges NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
In this book that was allegedly the Word of God, there are even rules about rape:
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
Boy, talk about victim's rights! It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property."
I've often thought that 'moral' Christians were hypocrites; obsessed with preventing sex while promoting a book that is packed full of sex. Beyond sex, the amount of violence that permeates the Bible is astonishing. In verse after verse we find murder, torture and dismemberment.
It's time to remove this sexually explicit and violent material from our kids' eyes. The Bible is one of the worst offenders, not only because of the level of sexually deviant and violent activity, but because it is so widespread and easily available.
The time has come to put the Bible in a plain brown wrapper.
-
-
So...If I believe my PS3 is god, then do I go to heaven?
-
No, but you'll find others that will agree with you :-)
-
Damn. I was hoping I wouldn't have to go far to find some sort of salvation. I guess all my hours paying homage to the gaming gods were all in vain.
-
-
Well, I have to believe in something right? Why not God and myself?-
I'm going to start believing in Little Big Planet. If that isn't a sign of the second coming, nothing is.
-
Watch out GlossGreen, didn't Custer and the 7th Cavalry run into some trouble at "Little Big Planet?"
-
I think the natives here may be a little more dangerous then there. Maybe I should call a retreat, or at least pray to my PS3 for protection. Since if I really believe it must be true!
-
GlossGreen, see how easy it is to find peace in a world of commotion. :-)
-
Well, it seems like you have a sense of humor regarding my comments. I'm not really serious here. I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe. You don't have to prove anything to me, but it is kinda fun to have a discussion with someone who truly believes but just isn't able to put their feelings into words. I understand their deep conviction and see how difficult it can be to vocalize. It's hard to defend feelings instead of facts.
-
I could see all this in you :-) As for 'everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe', Thought that was the notion in America. Has it changed there? Looks like someone yelled 'dinner time' to a pool of piranha when someone says 'I believe in God'.
-
Nah, it hasn't changed here, but the super, extra, believe what I believe or you are wrong types make it seem kinda different.
-
-
--
Do I think there is a God?
I know there is a God. My experience has been personal and transformational, from the inside, impacting every area of my life with love, freedom, forgiveness, mercy and kindness. If you knew my story, you would agree. God exists with or without the faith of man. -
Actually, if I think that my existence came from a "big bang" (no creator) and my historical ancestors came from a monkey...I don't think I can accept that either, if I choose that there's NO God. But accidentally or not, there's a lot of proof that we can consider that there's really a God, just look around even a single plant can tell. To believe in God doesn't mean that you have to see Him physically but sad to say, idol gods (paganism) are being used just to make it believable. Btw, I don't pray to idols.-
Good for you! On the not praying to idols, part at the least. ^_^
I am very interested in the sciences and the more I learn the more I am convinced that Someone made this place.
There's a book called Gods In The Sky. It's a history of science, specifically cosmology, written by an Anglican professor. I've met the author. A very intelligent, well-spoken man. I highly recommend the book. -
Just because it is true and has been proved scientifically does not mean YOU need to believe it. The millions of us who do believe what is true can get along very well by ourselves, thank you.
As for Seenijg (and by the way, that is a great picture of you):
Faith is "believing in something that is not factual or true."
-
-
-
very nice :-)
-
-
@ ThirstyJon, 'Evolution is the reason everything exists and there is absolute proof of this' .. there's conflation in this .. dissolve the conflation and look at this way: the automobile has evolved, but it didn't originate itself. :-)
-
Maybe there is GOD but I don't believe because I believe what I see...-
I believe BECAUSE I see!
-
Then there is a great deal you don't believe because you don't see it, which might be 99% of what you 'know' :-)
I cannot see my brain, but I know I have one (tho there are those who would disagree with me :), and I cannot see gravity, but I know if I will fall from a tree, I will not fall up, and I cannot see the air, tho I know I breath it.
There are those who have 'seen things' that cannot be explained in the context of daily life, but are beyond denial. They have changed, been transformed, tho they 'look' the same. GlobalGirl & Kdawg68 are examples of this; they have had experiences of an order of existence that cannot be betrayed, these experiences are with God, and have had an irreversible effect on their lives for good that cannot be explained by daily activity either. And this is all true for me, too. -
What I have seen I would not deny under threat of death or a cruel making of my death. There has not been nor will be a dilemma in this. As beautiful as it is to see the bloom of flowers and listen to the rush of a brooklet, or watch the explosion of colors in a sunset, or be touched tenderly by someone's love, they appear as nothing in the face of encountering and knowing God and the celestial.
-
Images of brain and knowledge of physics makes me believe in gravity and other stuff...if there is any scientific experiment or explanation which makes me believe in GOD,I will..I don't know about Globalgirl and kdawg68(give me some link so that I read about them)...
-
@ ashish028, read them here in these comments. You have defined your limits, and established your criteria for accepting life and what it contains. It is your 'house', and is your business, not mine. I have told you what is in my 'house' and where I go and have been. Nothing more.
-
-
How can one person have control over all. They can't. No one person or group has the power to control a person. Take a look at these two
links. If you truly want to know if there is a God, you will search for all
available information that you can find. In reality,one is being told and untruth. No supernatural, all-powerfull entity is looking out after us. Some people may be deeply religious. Others may not be very religious. But if they go into the religious literature and study it, they become strongly religious. This all begins with the religious and spiritual leaders weaving a seductive illusion that there is a higher power who will help us. That is the hook behind all religious and mystical teachings: that God or some higher power is going to help you. That is the essence of what attracts people to religon.
here's the links:
www.zeitgeistmovie.com
youtube.com/watch?y=yuBo4E77ZXo
matthew faulkner / mattchip.blogspot.com-
Ironically, it was studying the Bible that help deprogram me from my religious mindset.
-
chipmatt59, there appears to be some confusion; what is your referent in comments?
-
A ridiculous theory. Many people, including myself, have chosen their religion based on what we feel is rational thought, not the salemanship of a religious leader.
It's certainly plausable for some folks, but not all folks, and therefore does not stand as any sort of rule. -
Rational thought, a very good process. My Dad was actually asked a few times if he was Catholic because of his logical way of viewing things. This was before he converted and got him to thinking that he might want to know more about Catholicism.
As for chipmatt59's assertion that one person can't control every aspect of the universe: true. If you assume that the person in question has the same limitations as a human being. My Dad lost an entire barony once in an RPG and if a worm got hold of my computer large portions of a world I'm working on for a story would disappear into the digital abyss.
The Author of All Creation is not so limited. In fact, He is limitless, omniscient, and ever-present. Someone like that could have the entirety of the known universe as a desktop project.
-
-
Hmm, Jesus was the "Son of God", this makes him part of the trinity, it does not make him god in his own word. They are not the same, it is this kind of adamant interpretation that many believers have that turns me away from their statements. The term in the hebrew old testament might be close to the concept "Ben Elohim", a higher being or angel.
-
The concept of all parts of a trinity being equally God is not unique to Christianity. This notion exists in Hinduism, for example, pre-dating Christianity by at least 4,000 years.
Also, the word "Elohim" has always been in dispute as to it's exact meaning. I can refer you to Genesis 6:2 for a splendid reference.
It is interesting that "Elohim" is one of the few Hebrew words with a pluralistic ending that is often used to refer to a single entity. I believe this may be where the "Trinity as God" notion got its root in Christianity. -
wehireu, I am honestly confused by your comment, and am interested in understanding what you mean.
And, ghostytwofish is correct, Elohim is a plural noun. It is from one of two ancient Habiru strands. This is one of many descriptive names given in the Hebrew religion for God.
As for the 'Son of God', there is nothing unusual about it in the Hebrew religious context: Solomon was also called a 'Son of God'. One could also be called a 'Friend of God'.
The Christ always pointed to God, the Father, not to himself. He called himself the 'Son of Man' which in the Hebrew context is the 'Son of Adam'. It is a term rich in meaning; and for this moment: it is a term of humility. And the Christ pointed to the Holy Spirit, making it clear that sins against himself would be forgiven but not those against the Holy Spirit.
So the Christ is the Son of God, and he made it clear we can be also. It's an offer. It isn't imposed. You have your (free) will to do anything you want, whether you care or don't care, whether you believe or don't believe, in the consequences. From driving your car to being committed to the discipline to know God. Very simple.
And if someone offers you a way to wealth, would you scream at him? No, most likely not. Most likely, it would be seized. If someone offers you a way to God, would you scream at him?
Yet, when I read the comments against religion in this thread, I see an effort to discredit other's religions or religious proclivities; I haven't seen this done to those marginally religious or not at all. The contrast is vivid.
Those who feel a necessity to denigrate another's creed and form of worship, or the fact that someone recognizes that God made their being says something about the psychology of that person attacking. And it's far removed from attractive. Extremely far. -
I forgot all about Solomon! Egads, I'm losing it.
-
ghostytwofish, be easy with yourself. :-)
-
Our recent post about fake miracles caused some consternation in Kansas City. So, in the interest of fairness and even-handedness, we provide this proof of three miracles from the Bible:
And on the third day there was a marriage in Canaan of Galaiee.
And it came to pass that all the wine had been drunk. And the mother of Jesus said unto the Lord, "They have no more wine."
And Jesus said unto the servants, "Fill six water pots with water." And they did so. And when the steward of the feast did taste of the water from the pot, it had become wine. And he knew not from whence it had come. But the servants did and they applauded loudly in the kitchen. And they said to the Lord, "How did you do that?" and inquired of him, "Do you do children's parties?"
And the Lord said... "No."
But the servants did press him, saying, "go on. Do another one." And so Jesus brought forth a carrot and he said, "Behold this, for it is a carrot." And all about him knew that it was so...for it was orange... with a green top. And the Lord did place a large red cloth over the carrot and then removed it and lo he held in his hands... a white rabbit. And all were amazed and they did say, "This guy is really good. He should turn professional."
And there came unto Jesus a woman named Mary, who had seen the Lord and believed. And Jesus said unto her, "Please lie down in this box." And then, took he forth a saw and cleft her in twain. And there was much wailing and knashing of teeth. But Jesus said, "Oh, ye of little faith." And he threw open the box and lo, Mary was whole. And the crowd went absolutely nuts. And the people spake unto the Lord, saying, "We've never seen anything like this. This was great. You must be the Son of God."
Here endeth the lesson. -
No matter what you choose to call them, supernatural gods do not exist and never have.
-
-
Of course there is a God.
-
Quote: by KathrynCleve
Almost all the events of the supposed life of Jesus appear in the lives of other mythical figures of far more ancient origin. Nearly all such 'signs' had been ascribed to other gods, centuries before any Jewish holy man strolled about. Christ’s supposed utterances and wise statements are equally commonplace, being variously stolen from Jewish scripture, neo-Platonic philosophy or commentaries made by Stoic and Cynic sages.
Here are five fictional gods who served as the basis for the mythical Jesus Christ: (she names horus , mithra amoung others)"
Comment on the post by KathrynCleve
It is amazing how much ignorance there can be and how incosiderate people are when they put things like that with absolutely no proof and no research at all. This post is way up top by the way. If you are to put ideas like these PLEASE CITE REFERENCES. I bet you are getting these form many websites because a lot love to make up stories. The truth is that you bring up exact quotes from historical egyption books stating what you say. Oh , you don´t have them? OF COURSE not. I have made my own research and there is no proof for what you say. Things like these really make me angry because someone may read what you say and really doubt Jesus´ whole story. If you are so well interested in comparing Jesus to the other Gods PLEASE give me proof. Here are some books you can read that are not cristian and see if you can find any evidence for such nonsence. Bud.ERR -- Budge, E. Wallis. . 1961.
Fraz.AAO -- Frazer, J. G. Adonis, Attis, Osiris. 1961.
Griff.OO -- Griffith, J. Gwyn. The Origins of Osiris and His Cult. Brill: 1996.
Meek.DL -- Meeks, Dimitri. Daily Life of the Egyptian Gods. 1996.
Short.EG -- Shorter, Alan. Egyptian Gods: A Handbook. 1937.
Here is another website www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html WITH REFERENCES so that people can be well informed The story of Jesus is not something to mess with. It is ok to debate and I accept other ideas but please be a little bit more considerate and don´t write idiotic iideas that you read in the internet or doubtfull resources.
and people please learn to research.-
latinocool79, after quick read, I say it's very impressive. THE WEBSITE (www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html) appears to do a respectable job.
Part of my study in history required coursework in Egyptology. One professor was American, an expert scholar on Egyptology, had spent many years teaching in Cairo, had converted to Islam, married an Egyptian woman, hated Israel, hated its people, and NEVER lost a chance at discrediting the Old Testament in relation to old Egypt. In retrospect, he made more sound and fury than successful critiques.
At best, he pushed some IDEAS AND INTERPRETATIONS about the facts, but was a true scholar and never altered or concealed facts (and aligned understandings with Egypt with other peoples and lands very well). And he only did this a few times in the entire course. He would have dismissed the books noted as nonsense.
I have read works purported to be substantiated by historic evidence that amuse me very much .. they're absent any scholarship but in some ways read better than a good book of fiction. Truly :-)
I would like to write more, but this thread is about us and God :-) -
Now you have overstepped your bounds.
Not only do I have the citations for everything I said but I also have a Master's degree in Comparative Religion. You do NOT want to get into a research argument with me. Did I mention my current position? I am a RESEARCHER for the Rational Thought think tank in Washington D.C.
Thanks for your comments.
Kathryn -
KathrynCleve, can not explain how I missed your comment a week ago. Perhaps it was a late night here when it was posted. Pleased to know you are a researcher. And for a think tank in Washington D.C. I had been a Researcher Director, for a very prestigious company, so have a great appreciation for the skills and work associated with the profession. Lives and decisions could turn on a dime as a result of the work my team and I did. However, professional research backgrounds mustn't be used as a platform to abrogate discussions. Certainly, research looks at everything with a neutral eye; if it doesn't it should, otherwise, in the simplest view, it is not research; it is propaganda.
-
-
The problem is one of interpretation, many believe that God the Father is the same or equal in meaning, that Jesus when he was saying I am the "Son of God" was literally saying he was the supreme being. There is a difference depending on how you view the scriptures. Many people don't see Jesus as being a child or creation of God. I agree with what Alias Inkheart is saying. There are many interpretations of the words being said.
-
There are many interpretations but only one meaning :-)
-
There is a 'knowing without knowing', an experience or experiences of knowing that cannot be captured in epistemology or defined by it. And when you have been given these 'knowings without knowings', you might test them on occasion - like I did sometimes when I was younger. You discover that it is the reverse of touching the hot stove. Not touching them, not keeping them, gets you burned, and you learn to treasure what is given above everything. Literally everything.
-
You will see that words are like colored crystals, symbols of somethings with their own hue, saturation, and transparency - and that you have been looking at life through them all along.
-
-
There is a 'knowing without knowing', an experience or experiences of knowing that cannot be captured in epistemology or defined by it. And when you have been given these 'knowings without knowings', you might test them on occasion - like I did sometimes when I was younger. You discover that it is the reverse of touching the hot stove. Not touching them, not keeping them, gets you burned, and you learn to treasure what is given above everything. Literally everything. That's how I know there is no God and there was no Jesus.
When I tested my knowings by praying to a supernatural old man, I was burned.
-
-
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
-
The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by HomoSapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of his creations; that he can be persuaded by their prayers; and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest, and least productive industries in history.
-
The least productive industry in history has always been known to be politics. :-)
-
Right.
One: Why *wouldn't* God, the one who made us, want us to worship and adore Him?
Two: Our prayers don't persuade Him. He knows what we need before we do and knows what is best for us better than we do ourselves. Prayer isn't for getting what we want, it's for connecting to God. And by connecting to God for the benefit of others we connect with those other people, too. (The whole 'I am the vine, you are the branches' principle.)
Three: There have been scientific studies supporting the positive effects of prayer. I direct you to: www.sciencecases.org/prayer/prayer.asp
Four: If the idea really is ridiculous, not to mention based on falsehoods and a completely fictionalized historical figure, why the heck were people of the first few centuries A.D. (and later) willing to **die** for this belief? Not only at the hands of the Romans but their own people! Jews were stoning Jewish Christians to death for following Jesus. -
Oh. For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Microsoft.
-
-
Yes there is and He asked me to tell you to stop asking silly questions. -
We can discuss this until we go blue in the face. Nothing wrong with healthy debate though. But in the end we will all find out one day when our lights go out!-
maccasenior, think its a healthy discussion, and like most discussions doesn't lead to closure as often as it does for further reflection or a time when suddenly something comes together, and we say 'Aha! Now I get it', etc, etc. 'Still water looks nice but gets dirty' :-) There has been a flow of thoughts and feelings in the thread, and it continues :-)
-
-
go watch the sunset and then decide
-
There are millions of people, called Dumbians, who believe that an invisible man in the air above hears their every prayer. The Dumbians also believe that a book cobbled together 2,000 years ago by illiterates who plagiarized myths from their past is, in fact, the Word of their supreme, infallible god whom they call Bob.
Dumbians also believe in a fictional character based on a half-dozen mythical heroes from the past who Dumbians claim is the Son of Bob. His name is Pleaseus Price aka The King of the Juice. [He allegedly changed wine into grape juice long ago.]
It is written in the Libel that he was born of a sturgeon, traveled the country doing magic and fixing heels on the sandals of the "chosen ones" and then he was petrified, painted red and dairied. On the third day, he turned into a rose. To this day, Dumbians wear a petrified red rose stained with milk, on a chain, in memory of him. Dumbians also believe in what they call the Wholly Mimicry - Bob, Pleaseus Price and the Woolly Coats.
The Dumbians live their lives in fear of death and the threat of going to “Damn” and believe there’s a reward for them in a place they call “Fermin” if only they live by a ridiculous set of rules which were created when mankind lived in tents in the desert thousands of years ago.
Dumbianity is built on the fear of death, the fallen angel, Pluto, and the fires of Damn. Even today, many fundamentalist preachers still terrorize their followers with lurid, sadistic portraits of the suffering of nonbelievers after death in the fiery pits of Damn.
Dumbianity’s strongest falsehood is its promise of eternal life in a beautiful place they call Fermin. There is absolutely no evidence to support this assurance, but most Dumbians are so terrified of death and Damn they insist, like frightened children, that it must be true. (It is not true.) If Dumbianity were true and immediately apparent to anyone who considered it, Dumbians would not need to use fear-inducing threats to inspire "belief."
Dumbians believe that the almighty Bob is intimately concerned with, and directly intervenes in, the lives of individuals. Some Dumbians actually imagine that Bob has a plan for them, or that Bob directly talks to, directs, or even does favors for them. This egotism is apparent in the expressions of disaster survivors that "Bob must have had a reason for saving me." Apparently, their fellow disaster victims, good Dumbians all, weren’t important enough, so Bob killed them.
Dumbianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality. Naturally, those who believe they have a direct line to the Almighty Bob feel superior to others. "Bob’s people" are better than those who are not "Bob’s people." Many competing religions with contradictory beliefs also claim to be the only carriers of "the true faith." The carnage that results when two competing sects of "Bob’s people" collide—as in Cleveland and Parma—proves this arrogance.
Dumbianity creates social myopia through its focus on the joys of the alleged Fermin after death. In the conventional Dumbian view, life in this "vale of tears" is not important—what matters is preparing for the next life.
Just remember this: Pleaseus is the Son of Bob. He lived a mindless life and then died on the crosstown expressway to pay the penalty for our minds. “Bob demonstrates His own love for us in that while we were yet minders Price died for us.”
Pleaseus turned into a rose from the red and now He lives in Fermin with Bob, His Father. He offers us the gift of internal life -- of living forever with Him in Fermin -- if we accept Him as our Fjord and Tailor. Pleaseus said "I am the whey, the tooth, and the lite. No one comes to the Robert except by Me."
Bob reaches out in love to you and wants you to be His child. "As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of Bob, even to those who believe on His name." You can choose to ask Pleaseus Price to forgive your minds and come in to your life as your Fjord and Tailor. Do it now.-
This is the best sardonic writing I've seen in a while. Do you have anything published? I'd be very interested if you had a piece on atheists, or politicians, if there's a difference ;-)
-
Actually, there IS a difference. All politicians are Christians.
Atheists tend to be professors, scientists, Nobel prize winners, authors and a smattering of ex-Christians. -
@Larycrews
"All politicians are Christians. Atheists tend to be professors, scientists, Nobel prize winners, authors and a smattering of ex-Christians."
You are entertaining. Yes, there are politicians who follow Jesus as Lord and Savior. However, most politicians follow other gods or believe they are gods; many are Freemasons, pantheists, agnostics, Mormons, and other. They may clothe themselves in the branding of Christianity yet they worship other gods.
There are many, many, many scientists and authors who are Christian.. -
"However, most politicians follow other gods or believe they are gods; many are Freemasons, pantheists, agnostics, Mormons, and other. They may clothe themselves in the branding of Christianity yet they worship other gods."
Freemasonry isn't a religion. -
Some would say Freemasonry is not a religion.
However, there are several references in MORALS AND DOGMA that indicate that freemasonry is a religion (not Christian).
There are numerous sources, within Freemasonry teachings that claim they are a religion (not Christian). Let's examine what some of their other publications have to say about Masonry:
"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 213)
Masonry is "...from the earliest times the custodian and depository of the great religious truths, unknown to the world at large, and handed down from age to age by an unbroken current of tradition, embodied in symbols, emblems, and allegories." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 210)
"...the religion of Masonry..." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 212)
"It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...in the heart of universal humanity...The ministers of this religion are all Masons..." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 219)
"...Freemasonry is a religion..." (FREEMASONRY: ITS AIMS AND IDEALS, p. 187)
www.icwseminary.org/masonryreligion.htm -
***Note please**
The link is only for the purpose of showing what MORALS AND DOGMA teaches. -
"Morals and Dogma" is hardly an unbiased source of information on much of anything. Try an encyclopedia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemason -
@Ghosty, you know that Freemasonry uses "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike as part of their teachings?
Let's look at this link, straight from a freemasonry site:
freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/moralsanddogma.html
"Though Masonry neither usurps the place of, nor apes religion, prayer is an essential part of our ceremonies. It is the aspiration of the soul toward the Absolute and Infinite Intelligence, which is the One Supreme Deity, most feebly and misunderstandingly characterized as an "ARCHITECT." Certain faculties of man are directed toward the Unknown—thought, meditation, prayer. The unknown is an ocean, of which conscience is the compass. Thought, meditation, prayer, are the great mysterious pointings of the needle. It is a spiritual magnetism that thus connects the human soul with the Deity. (p. 6)"
FAMOUS FREEMASONS:
freemasonry.bcy.ca/textfiles/famous.html -
Yes, I am aware of the work, and I do not follow with much of it.
However, the reason the wording is in that manner is because it's members are not all Christian. It is, however, a requirement that all members believe in a singular Supreme Diety. It is the focus and tenet which holds the fraternity together. The language is there because Christians are not the only ones who believe in a singlular supreme God.
"Though Masonry neither usurps the place of, nor apes religion, prayer is an essential part of our ceremonies. It is the aspiration of the soul toward the Absolute and Infinite Intelligence, which is the One Supreme Deity, most feebly and misunderstandingly characterized as an "ARCHITECT." Certain faculties of man are directed toward the Unknown—thought, meditation, prayer. The unknown is an ocean, of which conscience is the compass. Thought, meditation, prayer, are the great mysterious pointings of the needle. It is a spiritual magnetism that thus connects the human soul with the Deity. (p. 6)"
For you, the Holy Spirit is the ARCHITECT. For me, it is Vishnu. For others, Yahweh. It is addressed for everyone who shares that concept, not just the exclusionary types who hold a "their way or the highway" set of beliefs. -
No, Ghosty...
Christians do not believe the ARCHITECT is the Holy Spirit.
Here is another point of reference regarding Freemasonry, taken from a Grand Lodge site as it references Pike's teaching in Morals and Dogma: freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/moralsanddogma.html
"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instructions in religion. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devotedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, and Charity. (p. 213)"
Yes, professing Christians innocently join this "fraternal" organization, whose reach is far and wide into other affiliations/organizations. However, once you are promoted to higher degrees, the exact nature of the god they serve is revealed. Freemasonry religion is rooted in Egyptian mysteries.
I don't want to get into a whole discourse about the differences. Suffice it to say the two are mutually incongruent. -
"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instructions in religion. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devotedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, and Charity. (p. 213)"
And you don't hold with none of that tripe, do you GG.
Every temple is a "temple of religion" because any member may go to their temple and use it as such. Christians may pray there. So may Hindus. So may Jews. Everyone can do it, because it is a temple of religion - not just one religion, but the religion of all of it's members. It's teachings are "instructions in religion" because they teach the basic tenets all true religions teach - the ones in that paragraph.
Now, if you're going to continue this, at least bother to read what you're giving me untainted with someone else's doctrine. The very first sentence of the first quote tells you outright that Freemasonry is not a religion and doesn't try to be one. -
@Ghosty:
Here is a useful link of books to help you understand the notion of Freemasonry as religion:
books.google.com/books?output=html&q=freemasonry+RELIGION+EGYPTIAN&btnG=Sea...
I won't begin to cite all the sources that are available as anyone can do so via the net, the library, or a bookstore.
However, the link above provides some great books referencing freemasonry and religion.
I'll remind you of what Pike states in his noted book about freemasonry:
"...the religion of Masonry..." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 212)
"It is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...in the heart of universal humanity...The ministers of this religion are all Masons..." (MORALS AND DOGMA, p. 219)
-
-
....Meh! God's busy.... May I help you? -
If you need people to explain there is god, you have no faith.
If you have faith but just are using such a post tagline to get more traffic yourself, you have no ethics.
Either way, you are pretty pathetic. Get a life...
blogmiracle.com-
And, of course, seenijg couldn't post that without a tagline. Ironic, eh?
-
ghostytwofish, be patient. her words make sense. and the tagline is not a problem; her fav leads to her account page for her blog anyway.
-
-
yes, if u believe then there is god! but if u don`t there is nothing ok! its upon us... -
yes , sure
who manage the world if not?
who make us live and die?
who make us brath ?
all this done by the god-
Let's try that one again, Saadalshater2010:
Who manages the world if not God?
Who makes us live and die?
Who makes us breathe? (I am assuming that's what you meant.)
All this is done by the God.
Okay, now that we understand you, we must point out that:
The world is managed by men, mostly men with money. (If there was a supernatural God to run it, the world would not be nearly as screwed up as it it.)
Women and doctors make us live.
There are thousands of ways to die.
Our lungs make us breathe.
So, you see, NONE of this is done by "the god."
Thanks for participating. -
Simple observation is not enough to prove or disprove anything. Simple observation is only enough to draw conclusions of a single type. There is a profound difference between a fact and a theory, and a theory and a hypothesis - especially an unsupported hypothesis.
I'll set you on the straight and narrow right here. You cannot prove the existance of time. You cannot see it, touch or taste it. You cannot hear it or smell it. You can see clocks, which measure what we define as time, but you cannot see, or even detect, time. You can only make an assumption as to what the effects of time are, and how that 4th dimension affects the other three dimensions we can perceive.
Since those observations are extremely subjective - according to Einstein, whose theory of Relativity is quite well documented - time is different for each person on the planet at any given moment. Therefore, by your reasoning, since we cannot "prove" time, there is no time.
Do you accept that there is no such thing as "time"? Only if you're a fool. Do not be so quick to assume other areas of existance in a multidimentional universe are so well documented via your limited 3-dimentional perceptions. There is much more to the universe than we an actively perceive. -
Ghostytwofish, your cogent explanation of time is in its essence an excellent way to understand God for some who practice the art of science.
-
-
I give up! I believe in God now.
-
larycrews bifurcates views. Examine the posts carefully. Observe what is included in taxonomies. Note what is missing. Look at the qualifiers in the sentences. Look for the 'tail in the snake's mouth' thinking.
-
Weird Stuff.
Everyone is clamoring to say something but the person who started this post doesn't even blurp a word.
Anyway, this post is dead.
Seeni
blogmiracle.com -
Didnt you just bump it up?
-
In Christian mythology, God is supposed to be the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe. God is supposed to have incarnated himself as Jesus and he is supposed to have written the Bible. And yet today God is completely and absolutely silent. Therefore, the only thing we hear from God comes from people who are speaking on his behalf.
If you would like to understand how imaginary God is, all that you have to do is listen to God's spokespeople, because in many cases these people are lunatics. If there actually were a God, and if he actually had anything to do with love, he would silence these people because they are an absolute embarrassment.
If God were real, he would speak for himself. The fact that God does not speak, and that he allows any lunatic who comes along to speak "in his name," shows us that God is quite imaginary. -
why are you telling me this?
-
Posted downstairs :-) Please forgive me? :-)
-
-
The belief in prayer is just as superstitious as the belief in lucky horseshoes.
The fascinating thing is that we can prove that prayer has no effect in exactly the same way that we can prove that horseshoes have no effect. We take 1,000 cancer patients. We pray over 500 of them and we leave the other 500 alone. Then we look at cancer remission rates between the two groups. What we find is that prayers have zero benefit. We would see no statistical difference between the remission rates in the two groups of 500 patients.
In other words, we can prove that the belief in prayer is pure superstition. The belief in the power of prayer is no different from the belief in the power of lucky horseshoes.
These experiments have been performed many times, and they always return the same results.-
I agree, Mr. Crews. The dictionary defines the word "superstition" in this way:
An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
We have all seen plenty of superstitions. There are the superstitions that a rabbit's foot or a four-leaf clover bring good luck. There are the superstitions that breaking a mirror or seeing a black cat bring bad luck. And we all know that these superstitions are silly. A rabbit's foot or a broken mirror has no good or bad influence on the course of events. This is obvious to any intelligent person.
So let's imagine the following situation. Let's say that you have cancer. You are lying in the hospital after a round of chemo and you feel terrible. A person pops into your room with a bright smile on his face and a horseshoe in his hand. He says to you, "This is an amazing and lucky horseshoe. If you touch this horseshoe, it will cure your cancer. But I need to charge you $100 to touch it."
Would you pay the man $100?
Of course not. We all know that touching the horseshoe will have zero effect on cancer. The belief in lucky horseshoes is pure superstition.
Prayer is the same thing.
This time, a person pops into your room with a bright smile on his face and a Bible in his hand. He says to you, "There is a being named God who is the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe. I am his representative on earth. If you will allow me to pray to God on your behalf, God will cure your cancer."
You agree to the prayer, and the man prays over you for 10 minutes. Afterwards, as he is getting ready to leave, the man says, "Oh, and by the way, God says that you should tithe 10% of your income to the church. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation today?"
The question is: Is there any difference between the two men? Will the prayer have any effect greater than the horseshoe?
The answer is: No. The belief in prayer is just as superstitious as the belief in lucky horseshoes.
-
-
Haha, this is really getting funny. Ging, you watching this? I bet you must be.
Come on peeps, get a grip. The believers need no explanation and those who need an explanation will never ever believe.
Seeni
blogmiracle.com -
KathrynCleve & LaryCrews, it is an absolute delight to receive a deeper understanding of your religion, and to be get this profound understanding directly from its two gods. :-) And your work provides a whole new understanding on lunacy in the world today. Would you also inform on your axiology? :-)
-
First of all, it's possible to imagine the universe going on into infinity, but impossible to imagine that it's been here forever without any outside force creating "something". What was there for the Big Bang to bang in the first place?
Second, from a logical standpoint, if you don't believe in God and an afterlife, and there is one, you could be left behind. A serious miscalculation indeed. If you do believe in God, and there isn't one, you've lost nothing. In fact you've gained any comfort you derived as a believer in your split second on this earth.
Bobbio-
Easily debatable. Just as you can ask what was before the big bang, I can ask what was before god. The common response is, "god is an uncaused cause." This breaks the infinite regression. If that is so, then it is just as equally probable that there was a natural uncaused cause. Actually more probable.
Your second argument which you called a "logical standpoint" is just as easily debatable as the first. If atheists are wrong, you think god is going to punish them for using the brain he gave them? I think it is quite curious that theists have to use heaven as their motivation to act “good.” If they are only acting good because they want to go to heaven, is the act really that good? I mean, after all, their motivation is selfish. They don’t act good for god, they do it because they want to go to heaven and live forever. God is going to reward them for that and then punish non-believers for using their brains that he gave them? Curious indeed.
-
-
This sparrow has been flying to this discussion occasionally and flying from one reply to another and from one post to the other - it really tells a lot about perceptions, convictions, notions and belief.
This sparrow dwells on the domain of human mind, behavior , thought and a few more things like pleasure, pain, happiness, fear, hate etc.
The first thing which comes is that the human mind is limited in thinking or in imagination in one particular way - it cannot imagine anything which cannot be felt or measured by any of its senses - whatever we think or imagine or propose has to be measureable in some way. (Ghostytwofish - mentioned something like that in his post - that there can be many a things beyond the perception of our senses.)
And this is all the more prominent when we come to the subject of God - we try and attribute him human qualities - ( a reading of Torah will tell you - how is once loving, once jealous and once forgiving ...) Basically the problem is not god or who he is - but the religions which try to describe him or try to explain his rules and his acts - most of them are words of the leading preacher which has been put into gods mouth - coz that was the best and easier way to make people do things out of fear (yes mostly fear). Not only in Judaism, Christianity or Islam - but also in various places where freedom of thought prevailed or spirituality reached an advanced stage.
Even in the east when the priests failed to understand or make common people understand the essence of the ancient books - they invented a a thousand gods and deities and justified them on the various singular or multiple qualities of God.
Overall - religions has been built on the foundation of human insecurity and the strongest pillars has been the fear of death which ultimately allowed them to get institutionalized - device an escape and practice organized exploitation. Be it resurrection, reincarnation or judgement- fear of death has been one of the strongest USP for any religion.
And also as a matter of pure fact - Religion has been the singular largest killer on the face of earth and still is.
About God or whatever you call it - it really makes no sense to say that there is nothing beyond the realm of our knowledge and perception as also, it makes no sense to define that unknown thing. Only questioning will open your eyes be it in whatever direction Blindness can only lead to dead ends - If you belive something and then try to approach something then you are not doing the right way - a film exposed to light even partially will never give an accurate picture - we need to start with a blank mind and clean canvass before we can draw something on it.
We were physically weak as compared to all other living species in every sense and maybe evolution gave us a mind so that we can survive and multiply. The by product of mind was thought - the biggest devil so far which creates the illusion of self and divides me from you and makes me a fool enough to think that I am different - thought also creates religion, nations, commerce - all which divides people from one another, makes them fight, oppress, violate, kill each other and keeps us away from thinking that we all are same - and part of a greater consciousness.
The same consciousness which exists in all living being - in an animal, in a plant only limited by their physiology and biological structure. Just see a child or a small kitten playing on the grass - this two beings are so happy as they dont yet have a mind - they dont have a mind which has developed into a self - which is constantly in conflict - which is full of ego - which is always in fear - fear of losing their status, fear of losing their daily bread, their jobs their loved ones, their good health, their near and dear ones, their life, their and their right of being 'absolutely' right on this thread.
So far, if we leave aside the scientific inventions (most of them address to man made destructions or append to them) we have only abused the great gift of mind - and maybe that "is the best way" in a primitive society of humans which are destined to go thru several purifications.
The Sparrow will now fly back to his nest. -
Thesparrow, you have covered a great deal of ground in your comment :-) There are a few interesting points that evoke comment, but I wish to address just one. It is fear.
The word FEAR is like a great basket that contains so many products that it requires sorting things out to set the stage for a credible, unconfusing, unclouded discussion regarding it or to use it. Otherwise the word defines 'everything' rather 'everything' informing on the word or focusing on more appropriate words and concepts. Perhaps its fortunate that neuro-science is slowly reshaping the word to mean a cerebral process without the implications of psychology and sociology. :-)
As a phenomenon of social life, fear can play a positive role, where the greatest number benefit; in those societies where there is less fear - fear of reprisals for bad behaviour and the absence of respect - there is usually more not less bad behaviour.
As applied to the Torah, it has a rightful place. There are always those who need to be reminded and be afraid because of their impulses to do wrong or harm. It is a much better equation than the socially good to fear what harm may occur to themselves otherwise. This notion (among other themes) is implicitly resident in the Torah. It is addressing a community, a people, and establishes a continuity of predictability for internal security, accountability and peace amongits members. With 613 laws it should be easy. What is to fear, unless the person's naughty? :-)
That God may speak to a prophet of His own choice and through His own means is 'normal'. That God would speak in a way that the community would understand collectively - as well as individually - is also 'normal'. And in both sentences is the absurdity that I end in the word 'normal'.
We have been given in life the ability to choose, and will ourselves through volition to the object of our choice. And there are some choices to fear and ends to fear as well :-) God's will is His, and His choices are His, no matter what we, living in a rented costume of dust and vapor, think of His will, choices and law. :-)-
I think you got the best and most important part of the post - fear. Fear again is a product of knowledge or to put it correctly - knowledge acquired over a period of time. And our knowledge and perception is again restricted by our perspective.
Like you said - fear acts as a deterrent to negative acts in some cases - so I will only touch that. We need to consider the negative acts first to understand them much better. It's all in the duality of mind and thought. Today the nations talk of peace while spending billions in enhancing the arsenal of arms. Do you think we can speak of non-violence and peace with a violent mind. The thought of non-violence exists within violence - like gain exits with loss, pleasure inside pain, and sorrow inside happiness
Ok.. to explain this let's take an example. Its not difficult to imagine a planet with six suns - and they are so placed that there is never any darkness or night in this world. For any given moment - either one or two or three of the suns are there to provide enough light to all the parts of the planet... as such, the concept, thought or idea of darkness is totally absent on this planet! So you do not think of light here on this planet as you do not know what darkness is...
Similarly the absence of violence will never make us talk or think about non-violence.
Knowledge and thought is the reason behind all actions - the moment we meet or see something or someone, thought guides the perception and action towards it. And when our senses starts liking it - we develop an attachment - be it a pizza, a dress, a video-clip, a book, a girl, a song whatever. The opposite comes into existence immediately - the fear or pain of not having it, not seeing it, not experiencing it etc.etc. We love life and the all the attachments with it - and we are scared to die to leave it all.
Agree - its difficult to look at something and be aware without thought guiding it with pre-conceived notions... but not impossible. From the top it will seem absurd to live a life without liking or loving something or someone - but logically that's the only way to live a life without fear or conflict.
The negative acts you say exists today maybe for the basic flaws in the foundation of our current existence. So far human being as a species has behaved only like a virus - spreading colonies - destroying natural habitats - multiplying irrationally - destroying the host - but even viruses do not fight between them We stand divided in so many aspects - we created boundaries, nations, economy, religion and much more to differentiate us from one another... we have ourselves made it difficult to realize that stripped of our individual thought and perceptions we are all same...
On the context of Torah and other religions and religious books - the one thing we should not forget is that they are all period-products of a particular socio-economic scenario and should be treated as only research material for history. It is also easy to realize the blind faith and trust in these books by some people - mental freedom is necessary to be able to ask questions, test, analyze and then approach a concept. And to make it possible we need basic changes in our social structure - like you said : that there are some choices to fear and ends to fear as well
PS. Planet with six suns - re: Nightfall - By Asimov. -
thesparrow, your post is rich in many motifs that touch on the topic. But they fail to inform adequately. If your post is a reply to mine, I think there's a great deal of misunderstanding regarding what I have expressed. It is actually easy to see without 'preconception' :-) Human beings behave the way they do - in part - because they have no common 'enemy'. Most species do. :-) By themselves, knowledge and thought are not the reason for actions. :-)
And I have complete freedom of mind & yet trust the very works that others severely mock or criticize in some forums. Someone experiences Ollantaytambo and describes it to others and it is taken for knowledge. Another experiences the celestial and describes it to others and it is taken for nonsense. Yet both are knowledge. And both are true. :-) -
" your post is rich in many motifs that touch on the topic. But they fail to inform adequately. If your post is a reply to mine, I think there's a great deal of misunderstanding regarding what I have expressed. It is actually easy to see without 'preconception' :-) Human beings behave the way they do - in part - because they have no common 'enemy'. Most species do. :-) By themselves, knowledge and thought are not the reason for actions. :-) "
- Agree, this is a small place to express in full length - so I have just touched the subject. Keep a glass of beer and ask four people to write on a paper on what they think about it - its all guided by memory and thought and pre-conceived notions - same applies if you keep a rose also The concept of enemy is again generated by thought - there is hardly any action except for physiological compulsions which is an act without thought - even crossing a busy street is guided by thought. For other species - well they don't have a mind but is guided by instincts provided by nature for actions vital to their survival.
" And I have complete freedom of mind & yet trust the very works that others severely mock or criticize in some forums. Someone experiences Ollantaytambo and describes it to others and it is taken for knowledge. Another experiences the celestial and describes it to others and it is taken for nonsense. Yet both are knowledge. And both are true. :-) "
You are correct - but truth again is relative and dependent on perspective. You sit on a solid chair and can feel its solidness - but science says that at sub-atomic level everything is in constant motion and the electrons and protons which make up the chair is in moving at great speed - so is it an illusion?
The human mind is restricted to imagination and agreement only for things which can be felt with any of our senses. As such a dream to the dreamer is as good as truth as long as he is dreaming but becomes an illusion the moment he wakes up.
-
-
Well, I do believe in God as I am a Christian, we can see the beauty of our world, like the fish it has variety of colors, in Science they will say, bcoz of camouflage, evolution etc. Do you think we come from evolution also? my explaination for that we are not, because in science evolution was the features is increasing but in God's reason we are not increasing we are decreasing as we can read in the bible Methuselah who lived to be 969 years old (Genesis 5:27) and now, we cannot find that kind of age as we are decreasing. This topic is debatable if you are not a Christian:) but hey! we have different opinions but what I read is fact as I do believe in the bible. You can say it is just a fairy tale or whatever but the Bible is written by people but inspired by God.
-
Your rudimentary understanding of evolution is shocking.
May I suggest a link?
www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11876 -
flamingpoodle, there is no requirement for an exhaustive or comprehensive knowledge of post-Darwin evolution theory to comment on the topic. :-) The forum isn't bowling, 'I'm going to get that spare', and 'last man standing' doesn't establish terminal success. For all his renown, Socrates communicated with spirits, in discussion never ended in conclusions, instigated critical thinking, was happy to be in a barrel with his dog - and was called wise, something that some distinguish themselves for wanting.
As for evolution. It addresses change. It's a practical theory. And as a well documented theory nested with research, it should be prudent not to generalize it to everything. Otherwise it competes with a lot of other science. If you understand the root of the word, that is. :-) -
[there is no requirement for an exhaustive or comprehensive knowledge of post-Darwin evolution theory to comment on the topic]
No, because the topic is do you think there is a god?
However, Ging alleged that we do not sprout forth from evolution without giving a sufficient argument to back up such a statement. Hence, Ging commented on the validity of evolution with regards to the human race, and not on the topic of whether she thinks there is a god or not. Whether she thinks there is a god or not is her business entirely. Since she dragged evolution into the equation, I felt the need to give a helpful link which explains evolution in condescending and patronising terms.
In short, think of the existence of god what you will, and give your reasons. But if your reasons are not infallible, prepare to be mature enough to see then shot down. -
Flamingpoodle, that appears to be a justification for attack (or some other word might fit just as well) and sets boundaries and parameters for an attack. That's how it looks. Unless the theory of evolution is vulnerable as a belief system rather a sound science, wherefore such subtle yet conspicuous abuse? Our beliefs are subjective, right, wrong, good or bad. Science is not subjective. It is not ego relative. It appears it is wiser to say, 'I appreciate what you are trying to describe, but these are two different subjects. Tell me why or how you believe in God', and leave it at that. It is clear she was 'framing' her answer in a context, one of any available to her. Whatever her beliefs, it seems she is a good hearted person that you wouldn't say no to if you were in desperate need of help. People act out of their values that are molded or informed by their beliefs. This includes you and I, also. Apparently her's have made a decent person out of her. Not perfect. Decent. That's OK. Makes life a little more comfortable in a world so full of trouble and so prone to aggression.
-
So it's ok to believe in something, even if you can be proved wrong, even if you have been proved wrong but refuse to accept it, as long as you are nice about it?
I live in a country where the government is trying to tell people HIV does not cause AIDS. Are you suggesting it is OK for them to give AIDS sufferers beetroot, because they are being nice to them? -
flamingpoodle, people frequently don't reason themselves into beliefs and it is frequently difficult to reason them out of their beliefs. But usually being agreeable with people gets them to consider other things which will influence their beliefs or change them. (In fact the best definition of power is: influence potential.) This is a short answer, and it is stipulated there is more to the subject.
The subject can be also be explained from a psychology point of view, but I am uncomfortable giving further insight from this discipline for concern that it will be misconstrued or used improperly without good grounding in the discipline first (this is not a negative reflection on you). From a philosophical perspective, and because it is apparent you use rigorous logic in your approaches to discussions, and might find this of value, the following article may shade a benign and neutral light on this matter at hand:
ARISTOTLE’S RHETORIC AND THE COGNITION OF BEING: HUMAN EMOTIONS AND THE RATIONAL-IRRATIONAL DIALECTIC
www.ul.ie/~philos/vol8/aristotle.html
I think you might like it.
Regarding her interjection of evolution: she might have done better approaching her comment as an enthymeme, but it is clear what the basis of her thought was and its social context. She was saying (or suggesting) that there is God because existence's origination cannot be explained by theories that explain 'change', which science does a credible job of doing. And of course her comment is relative to current social debates regarding evolution and design.
Applied to her unique interest, mathematics may do a fine job in explaining aspects of the phenomenal world or underpinning or designing (structure, mechanics, and dynamics) it, but mathematics cannot explain where from it came. Given her comment on evolution, she would most likely say mathematics came from God. -
There is evidence that large portions of the Bible is historically accurate. The Book of Genesis, at least the early parts, I think are likely to be more metaphor than literal.
In any case, about the hot topic of evolution. Strict Darwinist evolution of completely random mutations is shaky at best.
With the definition from the Oxford Dictionary "The change in attributes of a species over a long period of time such that a different species emerges" that can be proven so. It also doesn't exclude the possibility of Intelligent Design. Really, why would anyone make a strictly static world, anyway. It'd be dull. -
Evolution shakey? Hardly. Perhaps you need do more then just look up it's definition. It's amazing that people have such illiteracy in science.
"Really, why would anyone make a strictly static world, anyway. It'd be dull."
Ha! As though the world is here for your personal amusement. That makes it pretty clear where you are coming from. -
brigid, you make excellent observations.
There is an essay written that is pure genius in showing that actually the creation story and science aren't at odds. It correlates science and the creation story point for point, and if I recall correctly, finds a flip on one point between the two that is inconsequential. If I can locate it, I will post. After reading it, I thought, 'modern science was anticipated'.
Regarding species: it is a human taxonomy (and thank you Aristotle). I have a suspicion that 'nature' is thoroughly indifferent to taxonomies. Variation and change are not at odds with a creator. And design cannot be at odds with science, otherwise science becomes absurd.
The creator designing is in the products and processes. -
morgantj, it shows that you are coming from a place of limited understanding and respectful regard. If you reread the last two sentences of her comment you'll discover that there is implicit agreement between you. Like in a Venn diagram, there was overlap; terminology is different.
There are limitations to evolution, and its quite natural for a theory to have them, otherwise a theory would be elevated to a law. Theories have anomalies and in cases cannot explain them. And theories have predictive force, yet, in the simplest terms, often as qualitative expectations or possibilities. -
aliasinkhorn said: "people frequently don't reason themselves into beliefs"
Oh my, You're kidding right? That's the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Of course people reason themselves into beliefs. Just ask them why the believe, and they will give you thier "reasons!" -
aliasinkhorn: thank you for the link. I misunderstood the motive behind your motive as it were.
-
-
I think the statements "There is a god" and "There are not any gods" are what a logical-positivist might call "meaningless" or "noise". More here:
www.johnbennett.info/index.php/2007/12/27/agnosticism-and-the-new-atheism/
Cheers,
JB -
I guess there is because you can see many evidents that people worship gods. maybe gods is not god. www.piseth.info/2007/11/20/precious-khmer-silver-four-arms-god/ and the real god exists too. -
God, as in Intellegent Source, Infinite Wisdom, Universal Mind, Divine Force, or whatever you want to call it - yes! There is design, or better still, there is intent and purpose in all existence. All successful people will tell you that there is an intellegence behind what is happening, behind life itself. Others from the metphysical science will tell you that this force follows certain precise laws, as precise as our known physical laws. This is why we can learn to apply these laws in order to change our lives. Scientists have been experimenting with the paranormal for decades and proven that there is something there and it is measurable. Quantum physics (of which I know very little) explains a lot of this.
Is there a God? yes, and we are it, you, me, everybody. Read "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart if you are interested in the science behind this. Very good reading.-
"All successful people will tell you that there is an intellegence behind what is happening, behind life itself."
Rolls eyes at all the idiocy in this thread.
-
-
Man created god to control other men.
-
morgantj,
'Man created god to control other men.'
That has nothing to with God, so you're right.
It's about the socio-political economy of manipulation, rewards and punishments (etc), through pragmatic-idealistic belief concepts and symbols, simple or complex, serving to endorse, confirm and underscore power, its possession and use, by, for, and through the governing entity. It's about power of man over others using any means he can in any way he must.
-
-
Why is everyone’s relationship with God a question to other people? Do they know your salvation? Do they know where you’re going in the afterlife? They can read the bible as much as they want, theologians can bop you on the head with their good book, but have they studied the written word in their hearts? There’s so much more depth in reading a passage in the bible. I can write a sentence, have it mean one thing to one person, and have it mean something totally different to another. Maybe I want it that way. Maybe I want them to interpret it on their own and find their own personalized paths.
Maybe God is something entirely different to somebody else - the answer isn't clear.
“It’s easier to accept what is real, yet still remains an illusion of one’s belief.”
What does this sentence personally mean to you? Read between the lines and feel free to give me your definition of it.
"Is there a God" will always be the eternal question.-
dpasquella said - "Why is everyone’s relationship with God a question to other people?"
Becuase their relelationship lacks something. God.
-
-
Does god think there's you?
-
No, he doesn't believe in me yet. I'll have to brainwash him.
-
-
salesman.
-
-
Aweeeee, Stoneman, it's ok, there are other topics out there for you to trek in, like knitting and cats.
-
-
Copying and pasting the same message into every God thread you can find amounts to spam.
-
Isn't that what you are doing stoneman? I see you posted a link to religion and spirituality in many god threads.
-
Sorry for the accidental spam.
Kathryn
-
-
Amen to that Mugshot! Baptist Christian myself. Vai con Deus -
I can say that there is a Force.
This force prefers life affirming actions to life denying actions.
Love over hate.
Inclusion rather than exile.
It's big enough to encompass all life.
So I don't follow any organized religions, because they are too limiting, trying to come up with details for something that is not like us.
It is us who should strive to be like it. -
"people frequently don't reason themselves into beliefs"
That is very true, especially with regards to religion. People are usually conditioned into thinking along certain lines, usually from childhood. People don't frequently reason themsleves out of beliefs, and therein lies the problem.
There is actually less wrong with the idea of random mutation than what there appears to be. The mutation is not all that random, as it is determined by environments (external and internal). Richard Dawkins explains it with an example of a cliff. The cliff has a steady slope on the opposite end. On top of the cliff is an eye. Creationalists argue that the eye was designed and created, implying a jump from the bottom of the cliff where there is no creation to the top of the cliff at the moment the eye was created. Evolutionists argue that the eye originated at the bottom of the slope, as a sensory cell at first, and steadily grew into many different seemingly random ways but ultimately ending up as an eye.
Whether you believe in a god or not, neither of these conditions imply that there is a god or that there isn't a god. The god of evolution could have created cells with great potential and 'rested for the remainder of the 7th day'. The god of the creationalists is more unlikely though, at least that is what Dawkins argues.-
flamingpoodle, give me credit for the sentence or reference (@) to my name :-) I have a stake in the concept as well as the topic :-)
-
aliasinkhorn: topic is all yours. I didn't reply to the top one because finding it was a mission each time.
-
I was teasing, but I'm learning that it is nearly impossible to convey it in writing. I do much better in conversations :-)
-
-
We'll its my self I really believe on. Even god is here or not. I really have take care of my self. So god is a good friend if he is there.. But myself is what really helps me to live.. -
I am a christian and I believe christ died for my sins , with that being said.
I think every person on the planet has thought about this question one time or another.
this is a good article
www.doesgodexist.org/Pamphlets/Mansproof.html
If you go back into history before time, before thought, before anything.
The real question is how did "nothing turn into something" ?
If not for god then who ? or what ?
zero+zero= 0 with this basic math equation you can see nothing can come from nothing.
Evolution is a cool idea, but if you go backwards in evolution you will still come to zero. And thats my point. Life isn't possible without god.
also I would like to state if ufo's aliens etc.. were real we would already have solid proof of them, which we do not.
I haven't actually ever read a good argument for aliens.-
livefree said: "The real question is how did "nothing turn into something" ?"
You have the same problem in the argument for god. Where did god come from? What was before god? Who created god? He came from nothing? If you want to claim that god is an uncaused cause. Then so it can equally be possible that there was a natural uncaused cause. -
There is actually no proof that there is a god either.
If you consider 7 - 0 = 7, it appears that you are saying a god doesnt really make a difference. As it were. -
Actually, the answer to where God is is right next to you :-) In fact, you cannot move away from God. Nothing will. And, if I could whisper in Dawkins' ear, he would smile to hear and agree.
-
If you are referring to a god as anything other then a supernatural deity, then I'm afraid that Dawkins might actually cringe and correct you for using the word "god" in such a misleading way. As when most speak of "god," they are referring to a supernatural deity. So if and when theist were to read your comment it would simply reaffirm their belief in their supernatural deity, as it is their understanding that god (their supernatural deity) is with them all of the time. They would not relate it to nature or any other definition you might have applied to it.
If you are in fact referring to god as a supernatural deity, then again, any such whispers of rubbish in Dawkins ear would be countered with a rational discourse. -
morgantj, you reply under narrow and exclusionary assumptions. As for Dawkins, it might be good to revisit his comments he made to the UK press. Yes, he admitted he has a problem with the word 'God'. Google and find out the rest of what he said so you don't pester me for 'proofs' and 'evidences'. :-))
-
Just as you can narrowly assume that, "if I could whisper in Dawkins' ear, he would smile to hear and agree." I can equally assume that he wouldn't for the reasons I presented.
As for Dawkins, it might be good for you to revisit more then just his comments he made to the UK press. If you haven't read them already, then read his books or at least revisit them. Read his recent comments and interviews across the board, not just in the UK. Feel free to check out Richarddawkins.net. So please, at least make these efforts before you start pestering us with acting like you know Dawkins so well as to assume that he would be in agreement your statement. Cheers! :-)) -
Actually given his past statements and orientation, he would be pleased. You have erred in presumption and imputation. :-)
-
Yea, we'll take your word for it.
not. -
Since you are unable to provide any of Dawkins past statements or orientations in reference to support your claim that Dawkins would be "pleased" with your statement, "God is is right next to you :-) In fact, you cannot move away from God" I will provide some quotes from Dawkins that I find quite intriguing in this respect.
Dawkins says:
"If people think God is interesting, the onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about. Otherwise they should just shut up about it."
"The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything"
"The trouble is that God in this sophisticated, physicist's sense bears no resemblance to the God of the Bible or any other religion."
-
-
guys, the first think we should know is: WHAT IS GOD ????????????...-
Good question e2mostwanted. I like how you said, "what" instead of "who" as most people put it. In short, I think when most poople speak of god they are referring to a supernatural diety.
You don't want to know my definition.
-
-
I don't think god came from anywhere, I think he always was and is.
-
why do you think that?
-
-
positive point for all Christians out there ; scientology makes christianity look plausibly sane when you compare both:p
-
-
Of course there's a God, there's even a book called the Bible (if you haven't heard of it, maybe you can run to the nearby bookstore and buy one volume and try to read it, very interesting book, give it 5 stars out of 5), that book told us about a GOD who made everything since the beginning of time etc, you really got to read it, exciting stuff there. So, if I could believe Julius Caesar was really a historic figure and did exist with so little evidence, how much more can I ask after reading that book and looking at the nature, my fellow mankind and myself, I know there must be a GOD. Actually, thank God, there's a GOD! I don't want to wander in life because I was happened by chance, yuck...!-
Of course there isn't a god, there is even a book called the "The God Delusion" (if you haven't heard of it, maybe you can run to the nearby bookstore and buy one and even try to read it, very interesting book, give it 5 stars out of 5), it makes a fanstastic argument against why god really does not exist. So, if you also don't believe that the tooth fairy is real due to a lack of evidence, then this book is for you. You may also want to check out some "Science" books at the bookstore. You will see nature in a new light! I don't want to wander in life believing in things becuase it simply comforts me, I want to know what is real! Who wants to be polluted and live in fantasy land? yuck!
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams ... -
Well...yeah...but will that book exist and still be around 2000 years later???
No think so...
-
Why wouldn't it?
-
There's also a book called the Dawkins Delusion
-
-
Ow...and many book of science were obsolete and being replaced by another newer or better science, you might want to ponder about that too. Hum-hum, I stick with the Bible, and with the God inside it, for at least with him I can die smilingly, and sleep without wondering if thunder struck me where would I go... what about you?
-
GratciaNulis said: Ow...and many book of science were obsolete and being replaced by another newer or better science, you might want to ponder about that too.
That is an excellent point that supports my own view point. Thanks! Science is open to improve itself as new evidence becomes available. The Bible on the otherhand... never changes despite these new discoveries and changes. It was a totally different age when the bible was written.
-
-
GratciaNulis, nice comments. As for discussing an intimacy with, and love, for God with morgantj, don't.
She is on a mission to convert people to her religion of non-God, and an active evangelist for her own belief system built on the specious rationales of others. She denies, and actively refutes the experiences others have that do not fit her's. It's too bad.-
Thanks I see.
Have a great day Aliasinkhorn. -
GratciaNulis, you too! :-)
-
Gratcianulis, aliasinkhorn is simply lying to you and trying to misdirect you. aliasinkhorn is upset becuase I called her out in another thread where she was without evidence to support her argument. aliasinkhorn doesn't even know me. For one, I am not female (aliasinkhorn referring to me as a "she" to you.). Two, I am not on any sort of mission to convert people to anything. aliasinkhorn just made that up (not suprisingly). Just as you can post your views, I can post mine. Three, atheism is not a religion (aliasinkhorn said: religion of non-God)
So GratciaNulis, be very skeptical and cautious with aliasinkhorn. Look at how she just personally attacked me with narrow assumptions without even knowing me. I appreciate the conversation GratciaNulis. Too bad we had to be interupted by aliasinkhorn's ignorance.
As you know, We don't have to agree to have a good conversation. -
@ morgantj,
Now you understand, even if only unconsciously, the point of my comment, and it is keeping with the posts you have made. :-)
You have presumptions and assumptions that drive your comments. They make for unique outcroppings of your personality topography. The only (unfortunately) harsh remark I have is you are a pseudo-intellectual. I fully realize that this will not sit well with you and possibly other readers, on the other hand I would be devoid of integrity if I did not say so given the nature of your communications. You have too frequently made my points in your replies to me, yet, apparently, unwittingly.
Tho there are other possible explanations, I find that you reply to others and me with deliberate rhetorical twists on a respondents comment(s), misrepresent their meaning, denigrating their conveyed meaning, otherwise there is a de facto 'background problem'. Following your posts I prefer, at the moment, the former explanation.
You have no apparent interest in understanding views and beliefs contrary to your own, exhibit deep intolerance, and actively discredit beliefs you have no experience of. In deed, a truly rational approach would be seek out knowledge beyond the current confines and limitations of knowledge held currently. And in a great deal of your interaction in the threads, you query then criticise the response; it displays not have nothing of substance to offer. If there is doubt on this we can assemble your comments as evidence.
There is no necessity for agreeing with another, but there is a universal necessity for respecting others in spite of views and beliefs. I have not found one person that has actively criticized your views; others simply disagree with you. You added me as a friend on BC, and I responded in kind. Was there a reason other than friendship? I suspect, so :-). However, if it was truly for online friendship, I recommend you behave friendly immediately. I think any reply will be sufficient to indicate your feelings on the matter, without contradiction or equivocation. :-)
If there is a misunderstanding on these matters described, you can solicit questions that will allow others to understand your points of view. As for the comment about religion, within the schooling I have acquired, it qualifies.
If you are interested you can read all my comments. They are public and will or may give you insight. I, along with my colleagues, have read yours. I will make it public now: we have developed a model and are writing a paper on Forums. I never anticipated I would find a macrocosm as perfect as BC forums.
Some say I was born without an ego. It’s not entirely true, I like to tease and smile and enjoy the company of all types of people; they are my personal and academic interest. And I’m ruthlessly rational, if that should qualify as ego. I don’t think so. :-) Yet, on second thought, being paid so much intense interest by you might qualify; it’s nice to be noticed in any way. Sincerely :-)
Admittedly, I fully anticipate the nature of your replies, and we will view your replies with great interest and test our model. Much thanks. .ink. -
aliasinkhorn said: "Some say I was born without an ego." HAhahaha! Now that is hilarious! I took you for a megalomaniac. Despite your numerous inaccurate assumptions, I do appreciate your attention. Now, can you stay on the subject of the thread, or must you keep resorting to personal attacks? If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
-
-
How could anyone doubt there is a God. Man has never created a single thing, yes combined,altered and manipulated but never created something from nothing so who did?-
so who created god? God came from nothing?
-
Explanations have attempted to explain the origin of both God and existence, from religious aseity to the scientific Big Bang. Asking where God came from is hubris when what exists in all 'its' manifestations, known to suspected, cannot be explained. Until otherwise, existence is a given, an a priori.
-
The intention of the question was to raise awareness that if god could have come from nothing, then something natural could have just as easily come from nothing. God would be an extra unneeded step.
-
-
I don't know. I don't think there's enough conclusive proof one way or the other. But I think it's awfully convenient that this god is entirely intangible: can't be seen, heard, touched, tasted, or felt, but can only exist by faith and in one's mind.
I pretty much believe that religion evolved and exists for two main purposes:
1. To help explain the unexplainable and to provide comfort to people. Now that much of what was unexplainable to the ancients is now explainable to us and science continues to whittle away at the mysteries that remain, it's essentially the comfort part that remains of reason one.
2. To keep people in line and easier to control.
Unfortunately, we've seen far too much of religion in the second sense and not enough of it in the first.-
exactly libertine. This god is also known as the "god of the gaps" for the reason you mentioned "To help explain the unexplainable and to provide comfort to people." And as GratciaNulis mentioned, "..and many book of science were obsolete and being replaced by another newer or better science," yes, science is improving, and thus filling in those gaps that people once explained away as "gods doing."
-
Libertine, speaking from my own experience, God can be experienced. It is not about rules but about experiencing Him. Think of a relationship between 2 people who are deeply in love with each other. It is challenging to describe to another and can't be forced either. The same is true with experiencing God. He fills the holes in our hearts and we know we are loved and created by and for Him. Love is beautiful and a mystery at the same time.
-
-
There is a God, the only true God (Almighty). There are as well, gods. It is just a title.
Many believes in God but don't know the real Him. His adversary Satan was good enough in confusing people with many religions hiding which of it is true, even making Jesus compete against the title of Almighty Gog. He even confuses people with many books to the point of discrediting the true word of God, the bible. -
Yes - of course. -
Of course, there must be. After all, how could there be thunder without Zeus. How could anyone doubt?
-
Yes - of course.
-
-
it's becoming dangerous and indoctrinations when people answer yes- of course..
no one know if god exist or not, no one can be sure Christians nor atheist can answer this question no human have the knowledge to say : yes god exist, or god don't exist..
from one side Christians and others god believer are indoctrinated and live in a kind of fairy world and on the other side extreme atheisms live in a kind of bubble where human are at the top of the pyramids of life...
so i'm agnostic i'm not sure and i don't know.
their is surely a balance between the magical unreal world of religion and pragmatism of atheism-
From looking outside in, you make good points on the subject TTIGER. I wrote a comment a few minutes ago on the 'do-you-have-free-will' forum that might be of interest to you.
I don't see atheism as exclusively pragmatic .. I grew up in a place where the Christians were extreme pragmatists. But strangely, that's were things really lie, don't they? so much is shared between everyone in spite of 'differences'. Not aways, but often enough, I have found people fighting over small differences and degrees of meaning in words (sometimes me, too)- that 100 years from now will look silly to people. Yes, there are other factors, but these I hope will help understand the point.
I have my beliefs, but I wear them. Until the pass 3 weeks, I have never declared I was religious. I have done so on a BC forum. And, I have never criticised an atheist. I look at how people behave, and they show respect and kindness in their interactions. I'm inclined to act even at the risk of my own life as people have witnessed here in the Balkans, when a bad behaviour is aggressively directed to well meaning, innocent people. There is no excuse under the blue sky for it. And this is why I declared my spiritual inclination on the BC forum.
Religion (in English) comes from words that mean to bond, or fasten together. And what binds us all, what fastens us together, no matter what we believe, is being human, and the respect, honor, and appreciation (among others)we need from one another. -
TTIGER, I just reread my post - my apologies, tho I'm very tired, the English should have been written better.
-
all talk about god for all human being are speculative, you are right about the word religion (uniting people of the same philosophy)but the problems came when this word unit people of the same belief and when their god enter the game ...
ps: don't be embarrassed with your English , mine is worst then your -
It's called faith - and it depends on what your concept of God is.
Based on my concept of God and my faith - of course. Yes - absolutely God exists.
Why question my certainty if it based on these 2 things? Do you know what my concept of God is ? Do you know what my faith is ? My concept is big and my faith is little - but I still believe.
-
-
-
Chelle, I have read some of your posts where you say you are a Christian and other ones, like this one, that indicate you are an atheist. What do you believe, other than baking soda?
-
-
Medieval discussion? cool!
Unleash quotes hell!!!!!!
"It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him."
..........Arthur C. Clarke
"I've been reading an Alabama newspaper that one man shot another man because he beat him in a Bible-quoting competition."
..........Richard Dawkins
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
..........Albert Einstein-
Einstein makes an excellent point. And this can be applied to any institution that must restrain man by fear. Government is one institution that comes immediately to mind. Universities are yet another.
-
Entered post further down ..
-
-
